10 Hard Truths that Christian wives must accept about their husband’s and porn

This article has been updated and moved to my new site dedicate exclusively to the topic of porn use from a Biblical perspective. You can find the new site here.

142 thoughts on “10 Hard Truths that Christian wives must accept about their husband’s and porn

  1. @Snapper,

    How much a person should be willing to give up for a spouse is highly situational (I don’t have the same issues with crime shows that Ame does for example), and a lot of it should be taken care of in the dating stage. This is part of why I encourage people to be an active part of each other’s non-sexual lives in that stage of their relationship. If a guy keeps his porn use a secret until marriage, he has only himself to blame that they weren’t able to have a conversation about that prior to getting married. If your wife spent any significant amount of time with you, she should have realized that you enjoyed computer games and you guys could have either discussed it then, or she would have been fine with it then and shouldn’t change right now. Generally, I’d say that if someone was fine with something in the dating stage, they have no right to do a 180 after marriage (doesn’t mean that the thing in question isn’t sin, but more that the offended spouse doesn’t really have a leg to stand on at that point). Keep in mind that this will work both ways. Just like your wife shouldn’t have a problem with your computer games if she knew you enjoyed them prior to marriage, a man who marries a known feminist shouldn’t start having a problem with that after they’re married. If a guy doesn’t want to be married to a feminist, I completely sympathize. But the solution is to not marry a feminist, not to marry one and try to change her. Same with your wife and your computer games.

    No couple is completely compatible, but if people take an active role in the dating process, it should avoid a lot of these situations (no solution is 100% foolproof). People need to pick their battles. For me, if my husband had been in unrepentant continued porn use, that would have been a deal-breaker. His enjoyment of Game of Thrones was very difficult for me and though I wasn’t ending the relationship because of it, he knew I struggled with it and asked him if he was willing to stop watching it for me, even if he didn’t necessarily think he had to. He was willing to and it was a good 6 months later before God convicted him of that. Prior to that, he had been giving up what he saw as a legitimate right in order to prioritize me. He is also more keen on 3rd party candidates than I am, but that was not a hill I was going to die on to any degree. He had his own list. Point being, each couple needs to pick their battles and come to some sort of resolution prior to marriage. And it helps if people aren’t just standing on their rights to the hurt of the person they’re preparing to spend the rest of their lives with.

  2. @BGR,

    You raise a good point about Jewish interpretations of SoS. It also makes sense that medieval Christians rejected the more literal interpretation for a more spiritual one. After all, Christians from that period often argued that their interpretation of the Bible, which they considered more spiritual, was superior to the more “carnal” Jewish interpretation.

  3. @AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “But for me, the concept of a husband and wife being one, implies that the person is there. Maybe not always physically, but they are in our thoughts, and they influence our actions (or at least should). There is a huge difference between a random stranger not being part of a dinner party, and a wife not being in the room.”

    When a husband and wife become one in marriage this does not mean they loose their distinctive personality or gender differences. It does not even mean that their differences on political, family or spiritual matters go away. God calls marriage a “one flesh” relationship not a “one heart”, “one mind” relationship. Obviously being one flesh means a married couple must be physically united in the act of sex on as regular a basis as possible. I Peter 3:7 shows us that a husband should know his wife – he should know her thoughts and feelings on issues to the extent that she wishes to reveal those thoughts and feelings.

    But there is a “oneness” in marriage that the world believes in and a “oneness” in marriage that the Bible teaches us. The world teaches us a “oneness” model where the man and woman equally influence one another in the style of an equal partnership. But in Biblical marriage the oneness looks more like that a general and his subordinate officers. The Greek word that the Bible uses when telling wives to submit was “Hupotasso” and this was a military term used to refer to men arranging themselves under their commanders and uniting behind their commander. In the military a captain may be able to attempt to influence his general’s decisions and a wise general will hear the advice of the officers under his command. But at the end of the day the subordinate officer lines up under his general and he becomes one behind him.

    Would a general after hearing the disagreement of his subordinate office on a particular policy or action he was going take and deciding against that officer’s position then decide that he still would not act in deference to that subordinate? The answer would definitely be no.

    So I stand by my position that men as husbands and the head of their homes must set the policy for themselves and their family what they feel is best in these matters. This is of course tempered by the Bible’s admonitions in Romans 14, I Corinthians 8 and I Corinthians 10 meaning that we as husbands while being the spiritual head’s of our home and the final decider on policy and practice may choose to do some things in private away from our wives. There is no sin in this.

    Your Statement:

    “As to whether or not a man should try to suppress his attraction to a variety of women, I would replace the word ‘suppress’ with ‘channel’. Get as much variety as is situationally possible with one’s wife. Whether that’s her varying her appearance, or trying out different sexual positions..”

    You and I both agree that men need to “channel” their sexual desires but we are going to have to agree to disagree on what the channeling looks like. Telling men to channel their natural(and I would argue God given) attraction to a variety of women by focusing on the variety from one’s wife(wearing different things and using different positions) is like telling someone they can only eat hot dogs for the rest of their life but they can change the condiments for “variety”. A hot dog will still be a hot dog no matter how you change up condiments, it will never be a hamburger, or a ham sandwich or a pizza.

    It does not solve the issue and allow a man to exercise his polygynous nature. It is the same as telling single people that instead of them being able to exercise their sexual natures by enjoying sexual fantasies and masturbating that they just need to redirect their thoughts to some other thing like sports or other hobbies. It does not solve the underlying issue it only suppresses it.

    So when I argue that men need to channel their polygynous natures in healthy ways I mean doing it in ways that do not violate God’s law. Porn is similar to violent video games in that it allows men to exercise their aggressive nature in the same way porn allows men to exercise their polygynous nature.

    And contrary to popular belief porn is far older that our modern age. There are very ancient statues, carvings and paintings all over the world of nude men, women and couples having sex. Even without an external stimulus(like a painting or an image) men simply constructed porn in their minds. The only difference is the technology today allows us not to have to do all the imagining in our minds. Before violent video games boys played army in the back yard – now they just play it on a screen. But there are certain aspects of a men’s minds that needs that need to be exercised in healthy ways.

    We will just agree to disagree on what those healthy ways are as we did before.

  4. i want you to know i’m very thankful for you and all the time you put into your research and writing. you are able to explain things that, as women, we just cannot understand. and although i will never empathy-understand b/c i’m not a male, i can at least have an intellectual understanding which i can then pass along to my daughters and other women i know. i wish i had information like this when i was much, much younger. idk if it would have saved my first marriage, but it would have given me a better intellectual understanding of men in general.

    ***

    i heard the saying years ago … we should not set another up to lie … our friends, our husbands/wives, our kids.

  5. BGR,

    I think I must have been very unclear because by saying that the husband and wife are one, I was not trying to imply that the chain of authority was no longer correct. To me, it doesn’t have anything to do with authority. If i could use an example from your life that you’ve said before on the blog, it would be polygamy. You believe that you have a Biblical right to more than one wife, but you have chosen to not exercise that because you know that that would really offend your wife. That’s the same argument I was trying to make for porn. So even if a man did consider porn to be a Biblical right, it might be best to sacrifice that right for one’s wife. Since that concept can be abused by either spouse, I’d refer you to what I said to Snapper previously. This is the same thing that my husband did for me when he agreed to give up GoT prior to being convicted of it.

    I think that men need to consider the impact that marriage will have on them. They are committing to one woman. There are plenty of men in the manosphere that consider themselves unable to settle for one woman so they avoid marriage and go from one LTR to the next. I don’t condone that lifestyle, but I wouldn’t recommend marriage either for a man who wasn’t able to commit to just one woman. But if a man does in fact choose to marry and to make a wedding vow of faithfulness only to that woman, he needs to be willing to do just that. So if he marries a brunette and he wakes up with a strong desire to see a redhead naked, he might need to give that up. Nobody, male or female, gets it all in this world.

  6. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “To me, it doesn’t have anything to do with authority. If i could use an example from your life that you’ve said before on the blog, it would be polygamy. You believe that you have a Biblical right to more than one wife, but you have chosen to not exercise that because you know that that would really offend your wife. That’s the same argument I was trying to make for porn. So even if a man did consider porn to be a Biblical right, it might be best to sacrifice that right for one’s wife.”

    I think you may have misunderstand my position on polygamy.

    I stated this in the fifth part of my series “Why polygamy is not unbiblical?”

    Do I practice polygamy?

    No I do not. The reason is not because I believe it is wrong, nor is it because State governments have declared it illegal. The reason is because right now the conditions for me are not right. But do I condemn those Christians who do practice polygamy within the guidelines of Scripture? No I do not.

    But if I were living in a culture that allowed polygamy would I practice it? Absolutely! And no the reason is not all about sex as polygamists are often accused of. It goes far beyond that. See below many of the positive benefits of polygynous marriages.”

    I also stated this in my post “Was polygamy a sin God overlooked in the Old Testament?”:

    “I am not a practicing polygamist and I have no plans to pursue that lifestyle(one practical reason is that my wife would divorce me in a second if I did).

    But the Christian polygamists I know that have entered the lifestyle have done so with the consent of their first wife. That is not to say that the Bible requires such consent. In any area of marriage, Biblically speaking the husband has the final word.”

    The reason I don’t practice polygamy is NOT because it would offend my wife.

    My wife and I discussed what I had believed about polygamy for over 20 years. She did not believe that polygamy was unbiblical but she would never want to live in a polygamous relationship. I told her I had no plans to act on my belief that polygamy was still Biblical for today.

    Now let’s go to the marriage vows. Even though my wife and I had talked about it while we were dating and engaged our vows had no specific language that would forbid me from taking another wife. I vowed to be faithful to my wife and I believe that Biblically speaking a man can be faithful to multiple wives if he lovingly leads, protects, provides for and has sex with each of his wives. If he is kind to each of them and forgives each one of them and never abandons them he is being faithful to each of his wives and each of his marriages. Today though we imply in the word “faithful” the meaning of a vow of monogamy but that is not the case.

    But let’s say that there even is specific language in one’s wedding vows that would prohibit polygamy or any agreement made before the wedding. I don’t even believe that would prohibit a man from exercising that right and here is why. Any vows which relinquish a man’s rights are not valid. If a man vowed in his wedding vows to only have sex with his wife when she wanted it just as much(mutual desire) that would be invalid vow. God gave men(and women) the right to have sex with their wives even when they are not in the mood(not forcing themselves, but the wife must submit to his sexual needs even if she does not feel like it).

    In fact a good example of certain things in marriage vows being invalidated after that fact is egalitarian vows. There are some Christian couples that wrote very specific vows to each to other vowing their marriage to be an egalitarian marriage. Then some years later the man realizes what the Scripture says the husband being the head of his wife and the family. He goes to exercise that leadership and his wife reminds him of the egalitarian vows he made to her.

    Any vows that are made by a husband or wife that violate or give up rights and responsibilities of either the husband or the wife are invalid.

    Now having said all that. I do think there certain rights we absolutely must exercise and others that we can choose not exercise. I believe a husband must exercise his right and responsibility to lead his wife and children. If his wife chooses to divorce him over that then he must let her go. But a man does not have to exercise his right to take polygyny. He can choose for whatever reasons not to exercise that right.

    So at this time have chosen not to fully exercise my right to polygyny but instead I only partially exercise my polygynous nature by watching programs like Game of Thrones or other erotic programs. My wife is not offended by me watching Game of Thrones so I can watch that in front of her although she usually goes and watches her own shows during that time as she just does not like any imaginary shows(super heroes, magic…ect). But there are some other sexual movies and shows I would not watch in front of her because she would find it offensive but I still exercise my right in private to do so. Now if she tried to completely prohibit all exercising of my polgynous nature and told me all of a sudden the only naked woman I was allowed to look at was her or she was leaving I would show her the door.

    We each as men of God and the heads of homes must decide how we will act using our rights but also tempering our actions using the principles of Romans 14, I Corinthians 8 & 10. What one husband decides to do in this situation and what another will do depends greatly on the man and his level of his polygynous nature. Let’s be clear just like sexual appetites are different so too men have different levels of urges for variety of women. Some men have a very low drive for variety so for them to give up looking at other women whether in Game of Thrones or other shows or even in Porn is small thing to ask. For them to be asked to solely focus all their sexual thoughts on their one woman is a huge feat. But for other men this is very large feat to ask. Now for those who believe that God originally designed men to focus soley on one woman and woman only they say this just a character defect in the man and he must battle it daily for the rest of his life. I know that is how you and many other good Christians feel about that and I can respect that. But at the same time I respectfully disagree – I believe that men all have the capacity for polygamy and while the urge to exercise that part of our nature may be stronger or weaker in men it is there.

    I believe that if a man does have strong polygynous urges as many(but not all men) do these urges must be exercised and as I said before to you a wife wearing different lingerie or using different positions is not going to cut it. Even before the days of porn and modern photography men with these strong urges had to exercise these polygynous urges an if they could not marry multiple wives the way they did it was in their imagination since they did not have porn. Sometimes they may have seen a painting or sculpture that allowed them to exercise this part of their nature.

    If a man has not just a strong sex drive, but strong polygynous urges and his wife attempts to constrict all his sexual thoughts only to her it can have disastrous results.

  7. One point i would make (and I agree it’s not a first date conversation!) is that for a Christian man courting/dating, there’s never a good time to bring it up under most modern church teaching. If a man confesses this or tries to address it with a woman he might want to marry, those women are taught by parents/church authorities for the most part to flee from those men, rather than address the issue as you’ve outlined here, and dialogue about the important questions you raise. So while it’s a good conversation to have, it’s one that I am concerned the majority of Christian women today may still not be ready to hear from their men and deal with in a productive fashion, rather than abandon the relationship simply upon hearing of the word “porn” or insisting these men need some sort of therapy. To say nothing of the other “p” word – “poly” – but in all seriousness, this is a deeply rooted issue that is challenging even for the men who would gladly speak honestly to their potential wife about such things.

  8. this is not a comment disagreeing with you … but it is a comment sharing my feelings as a woman.

    what i think i’m hearing in what you write is that these are things men inherently know and have known … but it has been kept to men and not explained to women in our culture. i would guess that women in cultures where polygyny was naturally practiced had an unconscious understanding of this.

    this is hard to read for one having grown up being taught that boys and men should never look at another woman other than their wife. as a woman having grown up with that teaching in the church … there was added to this teaching that one’s wife is ‘worth’ it, valuable. so if i’ve been taught that my value lies in my husband’s focus being only on me, if his thoughts (or actions) also include another, all of my foundational teaching has just been shattered. who am i? am i valuable to my husband? am i important to him? or am i replaceable like clothing. i don’t think i’m speaking to putting women on a pedestal. i believe i’m speaking to a woman’s value and worth in her role as a wife. does this make sense?

    and while i absolutely believe our value and worth, as Christians, is found in Jesus, there is a value and worth found in our roles. a man finds value and worth in his job, in protecting and providing for his family, etc. so if a woman has been raised to believe her value and worth will be found in her husband, in keeping herself healthy and attractive for him, in doing things for him that make him happy … then she finds out that she’s not enough .. he needs more than you, more than one woman to satisfy him … it makes me feel inadequate. like i failed at my role. like i’m not good enough. like i’m not valuable enough. that i’m just not enough.

    as my late mentor would often say, it’s harder to unlearn false truths than to originally be taught Truth.

    i am not disagreeing with you.

    i am saying … this is a hard pill to swallow. if i’m only one of many, why am i needed? wanted? what’s my purpose now? i thought i was enough; now i find out i’m not and never have been.

  9. BGR, My point about what you said on polygamy was based on when you said the following on your post ‘was polygamy a sin that God overlooked’.

    “I am not a practicing polygamist and I have no plans to pursue that lifestyle(one practical reason is that my wife would divorce me in a second if I did).”

    That is what led me to believe that part of your sacrificing what you saw as a right was in deference to your wife and I gotta say, I had a lot of respect for that. You say that vows that go against a man’s rights are null and void but I would respectfully request that you provide Biblical support for that claim. That is not what the Bible teaches in Numbers 30.

  10. I found this post when someone I know posted it on their wall on Facebook wall. To say she had less than nice things to say about this post would be an understatement. Words like “herectic”, “false teacher” and “pervert” were thrown around by people who commented on her post. I did not make a comment for probably the same reason you remain anonymous.

    There are some things we are just not allowed to say and not allowed to talk about either as Americans or as Christians. I read this post and then I read many of your other posts. I thought I was the only one out there who thought as I did and then I realized thanks to your posts that there are others. But the difference is I like many men am not good at putting my thoughts into words. You have so well represented how men think and the struggles men face. I think any woman who truly had an open mind and wanted to know how men operate should read your blog.

    I believe this post in particular about porn is really going to strike a nerve with a lot of people. But what are saying is true and right. I want to share my story so that other men can know they are not alone and also I believe what happened to me proves some of the points you have tried to make in this post and in your comments.

    I am 42 years old and have been married for 21 years and we have two boys and a girl. My wife and I are both Bible believing Christians and we like you were raised in a conservative Baptist church. We were taught the same teachings you were about basically suppressing our sexuality until were married. We all know the “deflection and redirection” techniques that were taught. If you starting thinking sexual thoughts turn to sports or some other thing we were taught.

    Also like most people in churches today we were taught that polygamy was a sin. I can remember in my youth group Sunday school class one time we were studying the story of Jacob and his wives and someone brought up the verse you talked about where Leah says she was rewarded by God for giving her female servant as another wife to Jacob. To teacher quickly changed the subject.

    Another time when was in my college and career Sunday school class the passage where David had sinned with Bathsheba came up where God asks him why he took another man’s wife when God gave him all the wives of his master(Saul) and he would have given him “many more” talking about more wives. Again the teacher quickly changed the subject when someone raised a question about that verse.

    For many years I bought into this traditional teaching that God meant for marriage to monogamous and men were only meant to be attracted to one woman which was their wife. But at the same time I struggle with my own attraction to multiple women. In my youth group I was definitely attracted to multiple women and I can say for sure if polygamy was allowed I would not have gone with just my wife. I realize that sounds really unromantic to any woman here (and would to my wife if I ever told her that).

    But I chose my wife and I still love her to this day.

    I looked at porn before I was married and I had a constant cloud of guilt hanging over my head. Like many Christian men I reasoned that when I got married my attraction to porn would go away. Well it did not. I will say how much I looked at porn certainly did go down after I was married and was able to have sex with my wife (we were both virgins until we were married).

    That cycle of guilt and shame and all you Christian men who look at porn no exactly what I am talking about was eating me up. Why was my wife not enough? There were times I doubted my salvation but then I remembered that one of my greatest heroes of the faith struggled with sexual sin and God called him a man after his own heart. I would ask God for forgiveness and go for weeks or even a months without looking at it only to have some beautiful woman pass me by in the mall and the trigger was set. I needed to experience my fantasies. So would look at porn again and then the cycle of guilt and shame began.

    My wife knew nothing of my porn habit as I was very good at hiding it.

    Let me say before I continue that my wife was not and is not like some of the wives described on this blog that deny their husbands sexually. My wife has always made herself available to me and except for a few things I would like more (and you guys all know what I am talking about) my wife is pretty enthusiastic in the bedroom. For most of our marriage we have had sex probably at least 3 times a week so I can’t complain about that from my wife.

    Also in most cases I would have sex with my wife the same day after I looked at porn so it was not as if there a ton of masturbation going on. I would say I probably masturbated only about 20 percent of the time and 80 percent of the time I would just go have sex with my wife.

    At first I would reason that looking at porn was better than me seeking out sex with strange women. But at one of my lowest points after condemning myself OVER AND OVER since I was a teenage boy I snapped! I reasoned EXACTLY what you have said in you have said here that if porn was adultery and so was having sex with other women other than my wife I might as well do that and that was way better than porn.

    I had been married about 5 years and went to massage parlor and I paid a woman for sex. Afterwards I felt a rush of guilt worse than I ever felt after using porn. I could not touch my wife afterwards because I knew what I had done. It was one of the worst feelings I have ever felt. My wife knew there was something wrong with me and I broke down in tears and told her what I did. I also did what many men do and took the easy way out and blamed it on the porn. I made porn my scapegoat. My wife was very upset but she forgave me that same day and she too was willing to let porn be my scapegoat. Although it certainly left some scars in our marriage. She and eventually started having sex again and for a while things were tense and she would need to just cry and experience her hurt but eventually we go through it and we had a healthy sex life once again.

    I went to a sex addiction program that was sponsored by a local church and vowed to give up porn. For me and my wife we decided porn was the enemy. But the battle against looking at porn reared its ugly head again within a few months of me being in the program. I left the program and told my wife I was cured – she was doubtful and said “you don’t cure an addiction that fast” but she left me alone.
    The cycle started again where I would look at porn and then feel a huge rush of guilt. I would pray hard every night in tears asking God to change me and asking God to take away these sinful desires I had. I begged God to make me desire only my wife and no other woman. I reasoned with him day and night “God if you could part the red sea and bring back the dead surely you can make me desire only one woman”. But my prayers went unanswered.

    About two years after I sinned with that woman in the massage parlor after constant failures of returning to porn and asking God for forgiveness and begging God to take away my attraction toward other women I started to have those same thoughts again about going to a woman at a massage parlor. But then I would stop myself and remind myself how horrible I felt and that while porn was sin and I felt guilty but the guilt I felt after being with that other woman was 10 times worse!

    I even entertained thoughts of just telling my wife she needed to divorce me and find a better man. A man who would only be attracted to her. Surely they were out there and I was just a perverted sexual freak for desiring women other than my wife. But I knew the havoc that would bring to my children and that held me back from talking to my wife about my thoughts.

    Finally one day it hit me. I still remember the day about 13 years ago when I realized a startling truth. Porn was not my enemy and it was not the reason I slept with that woman at the massage parlor two years prior. Porn was what kept me from sleeping with other women and even kept me from trying to sleep with my wife before we were married. Porn gave me a sexual outlet so I would be less tempted to have sex outside of marriage. But then I still struggled with the issue of porn being lust even if it was the lesser of two evils.

    For many years after this point I reasoned that porn for me was like smoking cigarettes verses smoking pot or doing drugs. Cigarettes are the lesser of the two evils. This way I would keep my family together and I would use porn to experience my fantasies and I would not allow myself to be tempted by that argument that if both porn and sleeping with other women are the same why not just do the second one.

    I continued to ask God to forgive me but I knew I could not let my guilt destroy my family. Then about 5 years ago I came across some people posting some things about lust in some Christian forums online. I remember some posters making some very similar arguments to what you have made on this site that we as a culture have it all wrong. They were talking about men being naturally polygynous like you and what lust really is verses what we think it is today. It changed my life. I felt as though a burden was finally lifted off my shoulders! I was not a pervert any more than Abraham, Jacob or King David were perverts. I finally embraced the fact that God made me the way I am and my attractions toward other women was not sin. I just needed to “channel” my desires (something I see here a lot in your comments).

    I came to believe from that point forward that God knew my heart and my heart’s intent. I had absolutely zero desire to go and have what you call “unlawful” sex with strange women in those pictures and movies I looked at. By the way I love the way you break down things into understandable terms like that. I just needed to “exercise” my polygynous desires without breaking God’s law and porn was a vehicle that would allow me to do that.

    I can say that now because I can look at porn guilt free (and I agree not all porn is good and I agree with your standards on it). This has been such freeing experience for me. People don’t realize how much energy it takes feeling guilty all the time and hating your own natural desires especially when those desires were built into you by God himself. But I realized the freedom in Christ I had in this area it truly freed up so much energy that guilt and self-condemnation took up and I was able to poor that into my marriage, my family and other interests.

    Honestly I can say that I now look at porn less than I ever did now that I know I can look at it. But the nice thing is if I am walking through a mall now and some young woman triggers my fancy I can go home that evening to my office and find a similar woman in some porn site and have any fantasy I want with her. Then I can decide if I want to “finish” the fantasy with my wife which I often do or by myself and in either case I am guilt free in doing so.

    And to answer the question I know all the ladies will ask. No my wife has no clue. She actually thinks I totally kicked the porn habit and I 100 percent only have eyes for her and she is happy. But I did secretly share with my older teenage sons but I am still afraid to share it with my daughter as I don’t want her running to her mom. I had to share this truth with my sons because I did not want them going through the agony I did. I believe it might just save their future marriages.

    I have weighed the possibility that one way or the other my wife will find out one day. She may over hear a conversation I have with my one of my boys because we freely talk about sex stuff when we are alone or as well as I hide my porn use she may discover it at one point.

    I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it. I am hoping to maybe glean some advice from you as to what I should do if that day ever comes. There are still many things I need to figure out that I may need your wise counsel on.

    But all I know is at the end of the day porn did not destroy my marriage but instead it saved my marriage and I thank God each and every day for revealing to me that not all porn use is sin and neither is sexual fantasy. It is as you say here on this site only when we have desires and thoughts about “unlawful” sex that we have passed from experiencing our sexual nature as God designed it to sinning against God’s design for sex.

    I am sorry for such a long comment but I wanted to let you know you are truly doing the work of the Lord on this blog and I hope other men will be saved a lot heartache and wasted years of guilt and shame by my story.

  11. PornSavesMarriages,

    I just wanted to say your story is an incredible one. I don’t have a lot of time to comment on it right now and I may actually feature your story as separate post in the future but I just wanted to approve your comment now so other men and women can really absorb what happened to you.

    Thank you for sharing.

  12. i am overwhelmed by your story and so very thankful you have found freedom from so much guilt. the church has done such a disservice to both men and women on the topic of sex – from both the man’s pov and the woman’s pov … and then teaching women about how men perceive and need sex and vice-versa.

    may God reveal these truths about men and sex long before she might ever find out the truth. may He prepare her to hear. may she already have found peace in her heart and a knowing of the truth before any evidence presents itself to her. and may your marriage be protected and strengthened for all the years of your lives together.

    thank you for sharing your story. i needed to read it.

  13. BGR –

    I just read an interesting article at The Peaceful Wife written by a guest writer (https://peacefulwife.com/2016/04/11/curbing-my-sexual-appetite-a-guest-post/). I have actually heard of this kind of ‘reverse desire’ where the wife has more desire for intimacy than her husband and always wondered about it (especially when we were all in our 20’s). What stood out, which in reverse relates to this discussion somewhat, is when the author says, “I am going to try to squash my appetite when it gets too intense,.” idk if you’ve written on this paradigm before or if it even applies to this piece.

    ===============

    “So I finally realized, my desire for my husband is not a bad thing. It is not the curse I was beginning to think it was. It is a God-given appetite and it is good. However, I need to learn to control my appetite. The problem here isn’t my husband’s lower desire, but perhaps it is my out-of-control appetite.

    So just this week I’ve begun working on things I’ve been procrastinating about, like cleaning the storage room. I have been neglecting my duties because I have been wallowing in self-pity. I’ve been wasting so much time being hyper-focused on this issue.

    I’ve decided to stop praying for God to take away my desire for my husband. I am going to try to squash my appetite when it gets too intense, just like I have learned to squash cravings for junk food. I need to redirect myself.

    Honestly, I’m not sure if this is totally what I’m supposed to be learning about this, but it sure feels like a step in the right direction. And it sure beats feeling ugly and worthless all of the time. And my husband has been much more relaxed and happier the past couple days. I guess he can sense my more pleasant demeanor.
    ==============================

  14. “Brenda Stoeker is the author of this article and she was a co-author with her husband Fred Stoeker and Stephen Arterburn along with Mike Yorkey of the book “Every Heart Restored”.”

    I discourage Christians from reading any book authored or co-authored by Stephen Arterburn. IMHO Stephen Arterburn has not demostrated by his life choices that he should be teaching or counseling anyone. I am not saying he is not a Christian, but I am saying that he does not have the life history of making wise choices that would warrant him being a Christian leader or teacher.

    Arterburn has been divorced twice and married three times. Arterburn brought a public lawsuit against another Christian instead of handling the matter privately as mandated in the New Testament (I Corinthians). Arterburn advised his daughter to delay with her current boyfriend and date around, delay marriage and not consider marriage until age 28. No one can wave a magic wand at age 28 and instantly find a godly man to marry. Arterburn’s advice means that many Christian women will be in their thirties before finding a good man to marry. Delayed marriage means fewer healthy children.

  15. @PornSavesMarriages,

    Thank you for sharing your story. I think that your story shows why it’s so disastrous to teach that sexual fantasies about other women are just as bad as physical adultery.

    However, I do have some comments to make about this statement:
    “For many years I bought into this traditional teaching that God meant for marriage to monogamous and men were only meant to be attracted to one woman which was their wife. But at the same time I struggle with my own attraction to multiple women. In my youth group I was definitely attracted to multiple women and I can say for sure if polygamy was allowed I would not have gone with just my wife. I realize that sounds really unromantic to any woman here (and would to my wife if I ever told her that).”

    I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with you desiring multiple women or wishing that you could have asked multiple women to marry you. However, I do have to wonder how likely it is that you would have gotten your wish as a young man in a youth group even if polygamy had been allowed. In fact, I have to wonder if you’d have even been able to marry your current wife in a polygynous society.

    I understand that men have polygynous fantasies, and I don’t wish to shame them for it. I just have to point out to them that a polygamous society might not work out for them the way that they hope that it would and that a monogamous society where they can still satisfy their desires through sexual fantasy and porn might very well be better for the majority of men. Indeed, as strange as it may sound, polygyny wasn’t banned in the Roman Empire for the sake women; it was banned for the sake of angry men who couldn’t get married because richer men had married all of the single women.

    Ultimately, that’s the problem with the idea of widespread polygyny. There simply aren’t enough women in the world for it to be good for men in general. If there were 2 or 3 times as many women in the world as there were men, then of course it would work, and I think that both men and women would want a polygynous society. As the population is now, though, there’s no denying that polygyny would favor the wealthiest at the direct expense of the non-wealthy. Now, I’m not saying that men who can’t or won’t support a wife and family should be subsidized to be able to take a wife. But the fact of the matter is that a young man and a young woman can get married, have a place to live, have enough food to eat, and have electricity and water and means to preserve food and cook without a lot of money. They can get married young before their desires get too strong to control, and they can still work together to get to the point where they can support a family while their eggs and sperm are still young and healthy. (Yeah, I know that aging isn’t as big a deal for men hoping to reproduce, but sperm does degrade in quality and motility if it’s produced in men over 40.) However, in polygynous society, women and their families will be motivated to go for richer men who can afford a second or third or even fourth wife because those men will be able to do more for the women, their families, and their future children. Men who are hardworking but haven’t made it yet (or indeed who might never be rich but would make sure that their wives and children would have enough) would be more likely to get left without a wife in a polygynous society than in a monogamous one.

  16. @AnnaMS,

    As with any other topic in Scripture we have to look at the entirety of Scripture when coming to conclusions on various matters. I agree that our vows in any area(including marriage) are very important to God and Numbers 30 shows us that:

    “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.” – Numbers 30:2 (KJV)

    But Christ also talked about making vows that would cause us to sin:

    “10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” – Mark 7:8-15 (KJV)

    What Christ was talking about here was a situation where the Jewish leaders would allow a man to vow all that he had to temple failing to realize he was still responsible to support his family including his parents when they needed it.

    They allowed people to vow to do things that would result in sinful behavior(in this case neglecting to care for one’s family).

    There is a general principle of Scripture that while God holds us to our vows if the vow we made was made in ignorance of the fact that such a vow would lead to sin we are freed from such a vow.

    This is why I hold the position that any vow made to anyone that would result in sinful activity on the part of the person making the vow should not be upheld.

    The next question I know you will ask is “How would could NOT watching porn lead a man to sin?” Here is how. Some men have higher sex drives and other men have higher polygynous drives. So for some men with a high sex drive but a lower polygynous drive if their wife gives them sex it is not very tempting or difficult for them not to look at porn. But for men with not only high sex drives, but high polygynous drives – if you completely block them from any exercise of their polygynous nature(not even to think about it or fantasize about it) it can lead to exactly what happened with the story that was just posted here by PornSavesMarriages.

    This is why I maintain that any vow that would lead to sin is not valid before God just as if a man went to his church and vowed to give all his paychecks for the rest of his life to his church that would be sin because he has a family to support.

  17. @AnnaMS,

    One other thing I would add on vows and I probably misstated my view on the issue of men’s rights. Might there be some right a man could give up and it not lead to sin? Perhaps. If someone can think of it let me know. But I know if a man makes it part of his wedding vows to not exercise Biblical headship that is an invalid vow. If a man were to take vow of marital celibacy as some false teachers in the early church had married couples make that would be an invalidated vow.

  18. BGR

    curious – have you written a post differentiating the different kinds of ‘poly’ and what the Bible says about each? i get a bit lost in all of them, esp when you seem to use polygyny and polygamy in similar ways. not criticizing – just trying to understand as this is very new to me. thank you.

  19. Ame,
    Polygamy refers to one man having several wives or one woman having several husbands. Polygamy is distinguished from polyamory in that polygamy is always a one to many relationship where polyamory is a group marriage with possibly multiple men and women all have sex with one another.

    Polygyny refers to the type of polygamy where a man has several wives and polyandry refers to polygamy where a wife has several husbands.

    The Bible only allows one type of polygamy and that is Polygyny. Polyandry and polyamory break the biblical model of marriage that women was made for man and that a woman can only have one husband at a time. If she were to attempt to marry a second husband she would be committing adultery against the first unless her first husband was dead or she was justly divorced from him.

  20. It is obviously true that a vow of sin is not something God requires us to keep. But a vow of having sex with one woman only is not a sin. Do you really think that a man who has polygynous desires and no way to fulfill them (as his only sexual outlet is his wife) has no choice but to sin? The entire idea that a man might be in a sucky situation seems to have become totally foreign (and this is not a gender thing for me…if you will remember, I had the exact same response to Hope’s situation in the last post). If you were to show your wife the door if she requested that you only see her naked, I believe that would be a grave sin on your part.

    As to a right that a man could give up without it being sin, I’d have to ask what you think a man’s rights are. Personally, I think the Bible teaches more of a concept of human responsibility vs human rights (this is VERY unpopular in American thinking but please hear me out!). On the most basic level we have what people would call a right to life. But is that actually true? If so, death of any form (miscarriage, old age, cancer) would seem to be a violation of a human right. But that is of course not what people mean. Is it not possible that instead people might have a responsibility not to murder? The Bible does not teach the concept of human rights, but rather of human responsibility. This should not surprise us as Christians as the concept of rights makes it all about us, but the concept of responsibility makes it more about growing in Christian character. People might say that a married man and woman have a right to sex but the Bible never says that. Rather it preaches the responsibility each spouse has to the other in sex. So whenever people start talking about not giving up their rights, I tend to get rather skeptical.

  21. BGR – i’m reading thru some of this stuff again as i try to flesh it out in my own brain … i’ll be running it by you in a comment when i get it all written out to make sure i’m getting it right.

    however … this that you wrote here reminded me of something i read in a Christian marriage book before the internet was common (i think we had just got our first desktop in our home). i cannot quote, but in essence what these authors said was that in times in a marriage when one partner wants sex more than the other, or when one cannot for any number of reasons – health, traveling … they said it would be a ‘gift’ for the one to masterbate rather than nag/beg/long for what the other cannot (perhaps even will not) give. i don’t remember them saying anything about whether or not to let the other spouse know. i would think if we were in that situation, and i couldn’t be there for my husband, i would just want to know he’s okay. i don’t think i’d want or need the details.

    ==================
    https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2016/04/07/10-hard-truths-that-christian-wives-must-accept-about-their-husbands-and-porn/comment-page-1/#comments

    “So there are many legitimate reasons that a man in some instances choose to masturbate rather than wait to have sex with his wife that in and of itself is NOT sin.

    Where sin comes in is when masturbation(and by extension porn) replaces one’s desire for sexual intimacy with their spouse. Even in the case of a wife who grudgingly gives sex it still needs to happen(but maybe it won’t happen as much as it could if she were enthusiastic). Because a husband and wife need to have sex even if it does not always happen under the best of circumstances.”

  22. AnnaMS,

    On the issue of rights I think there is difference between “giving up a right completely” and choosing not to use it. In some churches Paul did not use his right to take support as all preachers of the Gospel have and in others he did take support.

    “3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6 Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working? 7 Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?…Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ.” – I Corinthians 9:3-7 & 12 (NASB)

    So yes a husband could choose not to exercise his right to polygyny or porn use but that is a determination HE must make. A man may be convinced in his heart that these things are not wrong (polygyny or porn) but choose not to exercise his right to these things as he has a lower polygynous drive. He may be able to focus only his wife because of this low polygynous drive.

    I know this is a hot button issue for you and while some women and men can accept what I am saying some cannot. We will just have to agree to disagree.

  23. Ame,

    I agree that masturbation when used correctly is a gift to us from God as part of our sexuality. It is a way for us to process both mental and physical needs that we have that sometimes our spouses can’t fulfill because of illness or separation or even because they may simply be unwilling to fulfill certain requests. Again as long as masturbation does not replace our desire for our spouse but simply acts as a supplement to our desire for them there is no sin in this – it truly is a gift from God. And no we don’t have to tell our spouse about everything we do in private as long as it is not something immoral or wrong to do.

  24. What I am saying is not that he shouldn’t exercise that right, but that he doesn’t actually have that right to begin with. The Bible presents responsibilities from which rights are derived. But rights do not stand alone by themselves. For every right, there must be a causative responsibility. Else that right does not exist. So a man has a right to sex with his wife only because his wife has a responsibility to provide sex to him. God does not give man a right to sex. He does give the wife the responsibility. And if people are going to argue that since God created the cause, He must have created the effect than please explain how God did not create evil since He created Satan.

    Because of this, a man does not have a right to polygyny because there is no responsibility for multiple women to marry him. Similarly, a man does not have a right to porn because there is no corresponding responsibility for porn to be created or given to him. Just because a man can do something and just because that might not be wrong does not mean it is his right. I can go to Olive Garden for lunch (something I dearly love to do), but that is by no means a right to me.

    We’re not just disagreeing about whether or not porn is good or not. It’s what a man and woman actually have a right to and why. Really think about that.

  25. @BGR,

    I’ve been thinking about this, and I have to wonder if God ever really intended for polygyny to be widespread or many men to have strongly polygynous designs. If He did, then one has to ask why he didn’t design us so that women conceive girls at least twice as often as boys. It seems unfair to make most men desire multiple wives and then not create enough women who could marry them.

  26. BGR –

    biblicalgenderroles
    APRIL 9, 2016 AT 7:32 PM

    is there a book that correctly interprets the SOS that you’d recommend?

  27. Joe,

    Yes I think it is ok for a wife to watch porn as long as it follows in the same guidelines for men. It must only be the type of sex God designed us as human beings to desire(normal heterosexual sex as opposed to homosexual sex, orgies, bestiality, rape, sex with children) and it should never replace her desire for sex with her husband and she should watch it at inappropriate times and places or let it control her life. If she can watch it moderation following these principles I think it would be ok.

    But there is a caveat to this for a woman. Her husband is her spiritual head. So he sets the boundaries and rules for their home. If her husband forbids her from watching porn then she should not watch it in obedience to him. A wife however cannot forbid her husband from watching porn as she is not his spiritual head but is instead under his authority.

  28. Wow! I wrote a post on my site (not as thoroughly researched as yours) about porn being a marital aid. After I posted it, I received a lot of negative feedback and unpublished it. I believe I will republish it with a few edits.

    As I reread my post, I realized I did a lot of passive apologizing for being a man. I need to change that before reposting. Your “Hard Truth” number 7 was most of my basis for writing the post. Men, even by proxy, want to feel desired sexually and porn is one avenue to drive down.

    I have a section on my blog to highlight favorite web pages. I am adding your site. I’m amazed at your knowledge and the simplicity you use to make your points. Thank you. I try to be the same, but you’re much better at it.

  29. This might come across as kind of sarcastic, but I’m genuinely curious. So, the husband can watch porn himself, while forbidding the wife to do so because he is her spiritual head?

  30. Taylor,

    Your Question:

    “This might come across as kind of sarcastic, but I’m genuinely curious. So, the husband can watch porn himself, while forbidding the wife to do so because he is her spiritual head?”

    I think you are asking this question in response to an answer I gave to another commenter on my position of women looking at porn:

    “Yes I think it is ok for a wife to watch porn as long as it follows in the same guidelines for men. It must only be the type of sex God designed us as human beings to desire(normal heterosexual sex as opposed to homosexual sex, orgies, bestiality, rape, sex with children) and it should never replace her desire for sex with her husband and she should watch it at inappropriate times and places or let it control her life. If she can watch it moderation following these principles I think it would be ok.

    But there is a caveat to this for a woman. Her husband is her spiritual head. So he sets the boundaries and rules for their home. If her husband forbids her from watching porn then she should not watch it in obedience to him. A wife however cannot forbid her husband from watching porn as she is not his spiritual head but is instead under his authority.

    I will answer your question with another question then fully answer what you are looking for.

    Can a parent forbid their child from using foul language(cussing) while they themselves continue to cuss? Certainly they can. But should they? Of course not.

    I don’t think watching porn(using the guidelines I have previously mentioned) is sin for a man or a woman. However a husband may feel that watching porn is a sin while his wife does not feel it is a sin. She however is bound by her husband’s spiritual authority so if he forbids it she must obey his authority. Now this same husband who feels porn is a sin and forbids his wife from looking at it may hypocritically look at himself while at the same time believing it is a sin to do so.

    But a husband can forbid his wife from doing a variety of sinful activities that he himself does. His authority over her is not based upon his performance. His hypocrisy or sinful lifestyle does not invalidate his authority over his wife.

    Should Christian husbands and fathers strive to be examples for their wives and children? Absolutely.

    It makes it much easier for a man’s wife and children to follow his spiritual leadership if he is living a life that is a good example.

  31. Alright, I understand what you mean. So basically, sex is the only area where the wife has equality in the marriage. For a woman with a higher sexual drive, can her husband dictate how often they have sex because he’s her spiritual head?

    Also, regarding oral sex. I know its not the topic of this post, but you’ve alluded to it in other posts and comments, and here seems like a good place to ask about it. I don’t understand why it would be considered a sin or ‘as not submitting’ if the wife refuses to give oral sex. You’ve explained that sex is what is required as the duty in marriage, so if a wife never denies her husband and has regular and enthusiastic sex with him, would her refusal of oral sex warrant discipline from the husband? Could a husband follow your ‘8 steps to confront your wife’s sexual refusal’, and bring her before their Christian counsellor or Pastor, because of no oral sex?

  32. Taylor,

    Your Statement:

    “Alright, I understand what you mean. So basically, sex is the only area where the wife has equality in the marriage. For a woman with a higher sexual drive, can her husband dictate how often they have sex because he’s her spiritual head?”

    Well I would not say that a wife has complete equality in the area of sexuality in marriage.

    The Biblical principle that “the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife“(I Corinthians 7:4) must be understood together with the Biblical principle that “the husband is the head of the wife“(Ephesians 5:23).

    I Corinthians 7 is teaching that husbands and wives have a right to have sex with the other. Husbands have a right to sexual access to their wife’s body and wives have a right to sexual access to their husband’s body. But how this “sexual access” plays out is governed by the principle of the headship of the husband over his wife. The wife may request sex with her but she cannot dictate that he will do it at a certain time. A husband because he is her spiritual head can dictate and alter his wife’s schedule accordingly because he is her head.

    So yes both a husband and a wife should be able to request sexual access whenever they feel the need and they both should do their best to accommodate the other. However the husband’s “request” comes with the authority of one who is that master of the other. A wife’s request comes in the form of a servant to her master. It is her right to ask – make no mistake – and he has a responsibility to meet that need but he is her authority as well and for various reasons could tell her no at that time.

    However if he makes it a pattern of saying no and he rarely if ever has sex with his wife then she may have a case to divorce him for sexual denial. Even when it comes to a man – I would not tell a man that is getting sex once or twice a week and he wants it five times a week that he has a case for divorce for sexual denial. It may be a case for discipline, but not divorce. But if a man comes to me and tells me he gets sex twice a year from his wife – that is when I would tell him he has a case for sexual denial – and I would say the same to a wife who has the same issue with her husband.

  33. Taylor,

    Your Statement:

    “Also, regarding oral sex. I know its not the topic of this post, but you’ve alluded to it in other posts and comments, and here seems like a good place to ask about it. I don’t understand why it would be considered a sin or ‘as not submitting’ if the wife refuses to give oral sex. You’ve explained that sex is what is required as the duty in marriage, so if a wife never denies her husband and has regular and enthusiastic sex with him, would her refusal of oral sex warrant discipline from the husband? Could a husband follow your ‘8 steps to confront your wife’s sexual refusal’, and bring her before their Christian counsellor or Pastor, because of no oral sex?”

    While it is a lack of sexual submission on the part of the wife to deny her husband oral sex I do not think it rises to the level of him having to take those steps I outlined for sexual denial. It is not a complete sexual denial as is the case of men whose wives will not let them touch them at all. I believe the bare minimum a wife must give her husband is vaginal sex if she is medically able to do so. If for some reason a wife was permanently unable to give her husband vaginal sex only and she refused to help in any other way(such as orally or manually) over a great length of time then he might have a case for sexual denial.

    I think that if a woman is giving her husband regular vaginal intercourse but denying him other types of sex(like oral sex, hand jobs, or boob sex) there is still sexual denial going on but it is not complete sexual denial, but rather partial.

    Make no mistake many women who deny their husband’s these other forms of sex are in rebellion and are failing to fully submit.

    Now some women may not be purposefully rebelling and have a desire to do these things for their husbands but they have some psychological hangups that are holding them back. In these cases I first recommend a husband exercise patience and approach his wife gently about it. Perhaps there was some sexual abuse in the past or some other issues she is facing. He needs to offer ways to help her work through this whether through sexual counseling with a sex therapist or other things.

    However if she has not real desire to these things and completely refuses to face the issues stopping her from fully submitting he may have to take other actions. He may need to use correlation methods as to she likes or desires whether inside the bedroom or outside the bedroom to help her see the importance of full sexual submission.

    A small example may be that his wife likes to receive regular foot massages – he might pull back on this and not do this anymore until she fully submits. And again as I have said in previous posts this is not a matter of manipulation or repaying evil for evil. It is a matter of discipline. In this exact example it is the use of correlation. The husband is trying to show his wife “if you do what is required for me and full sexually submit to my needs, then I will do what is not required of me and give you foot rubs”

  34. As a woman, I have to say that I firmly believe there are large numbers of women who feel the same as a man. I am often attracted to other men and quite enjoy seeing good looking men with strong bodies. What would you say to this? You believe a man is visual so that gives him a right, and a woman is not visual so a woman does not have the right? Well, if I told my husband I wanted to watch material that he found offensive to him, do you believe I could still do so?

  35. Natalie,

    Your asked:

    “As a woman, I have to say that I firmly believe there are large numbers of women who feel the same as a man. I am often attracted to other men and quite enjoy seeing good looking men with strong bodies. What would you say to this? You believe a man is visual so that gives him a right, and a woman is not visual so a woman does not have the right? Well, if I told my husband I wanted to watch material that he found offensive to him, do you believe I could still do so?”

    First of all I don’t doubt many women enjoy seeing well built men. My wife enjoys movies with Chris Hemsworth and Hugh Jackman because she thinks they are well built men. But just because many women can appreciate a well built and attractive man does not mean women have the same visual/physical based sexual nature of men. Are there some rare women that have a a more visual/physical sexual nature similar to a man’s? Absolutely. But they are the exception, not the norm. I am not saying women don’t desire sex.

    But for the vast majority of women they are primarily sexually aroused by first being emotionally stimulated by a man while the vast majority of men are sexually aroused by the mere site of a beautiful women whether they have any relational or emotional connection to her or not.

    So to answer your question more fully – if a woman has a more masculine sexual nature see no sin in her watching erotic media IF her husband allows her to.

    The difference between the man and woman is position. A man is his wife’s spiritual head. That means if he restricts her from something that he does not like or does not agree with she must obey him. But if her husband engages in watching materials his wife does not like she cannot restrict him because she is not his authority, but she is under his authority. Biblically speaking husbands and wives are no equals. Yes they are equal in their humanity, but they are not equal in their positions.

    If your husband is watching things you wish he would not then you should practice the I Peter 3 principle found here:

    “1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
    2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear…
    5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
    6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.”
    I Peter 3:1-2 & 5-6 (KJV)

    So if you feel your husband is doing something sinful then pray for him. But still love him and submit to him regardless. But also pray that God will either change your heart on the matter or his. You might just be wrong in what you are thinking is wrong.

    There are women who are much more visually aroused than the average man. You might be one of them but there is no evidence to suggest there is any large majority of women that are like you otherwise the porn industry that is targeted to women would reflect that. Having said that I don’t at all discount that there are women like you and any man who finds himself married to a woman who has more of a masculine visual/physical drive

  36. BGR

    Our other debate we had a while ago naturally ended, but this is something I wish to address with you.
    I’ve known for a while now that you advocate certain porn use and preach that women should be allowed to dress in revealing clothing (leggings)

    I don’t wish to enter into another long drawn out debate with you, but I did feel compelled to ask you questions regarding this highly controversial topic.
    All of what I’m going to say comes from my husbands mouth, not mine though I agree with him 100 percent on this.

    Porn is absolutely sinful. My husband disagrees that imagining a woman naked and imagining having sex with her is ok. It is sin to him.
    He agrees that looking at an attractive woman or finding her attractive or sexually desirable is not sin, but he believes you are to hold your thoughts captive after that. He does believe men were made to be monogamous and believes proof of this is in Adam only having Eve as his wife from the beginning. He also refers to Christ only having one bride.
    Again just like divorce is an option in the bible, but not being Gods true intended design, he believes monogamy was Gods intended design and not polygamy.

    So your definition of lust is to want to possess something. Not just simply desiring. But when you go from finding a woman desirable to imagining having sex with her you have now lusted after that woman. Every time you have stated its ok you have only given your opinion on it and don’t refer to anything biblical to back it up.
    If you’re definition of lust is to possess, then wanting to possess a woman means?
    Wanting to have her naked in bed with you, basically to have her (sexually). It obviously does not mean to want her as a wife or in ANY other way besides to posess sexually. Lust is not the action behind the desire, it IS the desire. So when you desire a woman so much that you begin to harbor and contemplate sexual fantasies of her, you are fantasizing of possessing her sexually and what that would look like. According to Jesus, this is no different from actually having seduced her and done the act. You try to limit lust to certain thoughts, as in if you think of what it would be like to seduce her or how you can go about seducing her outside of marriage, but that is wrong. Lust starts with you wanting them as a sexual partner. Again finding someone hot is not the same as wanting to actual have sex with them.

    This is where porn comes in.
    First let me say me and my husband agree that a wife can divorce her husband if he has cheated or is unrepentant of porn use as he is violating their covenant to be their role sexual partner. The topic of divorcing due to an affair only being an option for a husband is not accurate. Lust is also only applied to a man in the bible though it is not accurate to say only men lust. Women do all the time as well.
    If a lady sets her sights on my husband and finds him attractive and desires to have him for herself, maybe contemplates the idea of seducing him or taking him away from me, this woman is absolutely lusting after my husband! Now again she might only be engaging in imagining what it would be like to have sex with him, and this again would be lust as her heart is yearning for something that would be sin if it was playing out in reality. Her desire to sexually possess and have my husband not as her husband but as her sexual partner is lust.
    So it is possible for the bible to only mention one gender but really be applied to both.

    It is false to claim that men cannot help themselves when it comes to undressing women. It is one thing if a woman is revealing her body and theres nothing to undress, it is another if the man engages in these kinds of mental activities with every pretty woman he sees even if shes fully clothed and modest. However It is a shame that modern culture dress attire for women is dressing like harlots now, so is it really a mans fault that men today feel like being able to keep their thoughts pure is nearly impossible? It is also a shame that porn is at the fingertips of the entire world now.
    Let’s get into porn now.
    First let me say there is no “safe” or “acceptable” porn. The ugly truth is you are watching sinners engage in a forbidden sexual act that appeals to your senses. These women are prostitutes, these men are fornicators, nobody here is married and even married individuals should NOT be displaying their sexual activities to the public.
    Porn is all about sensuality. The bible has a lot to say about this. Second most porn use is selfish, it is designed to only gratify yourself. Now the topic of masturbation is missing in the bible, but it is clear that sexual activity should be reserved for marriage and should be an act you are to GIVE to your spouse. It is not only about you, but your spouse. When you engage in porn use, either male or female, (lets be real women use porn almost as much as men do this is not a “masculine activity”) you are allowing someone elses body other than your spouse to sexually satisfy you, and you are engaging in something selfish because it excludes your real sexual partner.
    Many men and women engage in mental activities during the act of sex that places another person instead of their spouse during the act of sex. Where is the “oneness” in such an act within marriage? The intimacy that marriage is designed to create? How different is imagining someone else in bed with you from actually having them in bed with you besides the physical part? God will judge our thoughts and fleshly desires. Porn inhibits this tenfold. Not to mention that this DOES hurt your desire for intimate sex and for your spouse. In many cases your spouse (male or female) might not measure up to those actors on there. This can cause you to greatly become unsatisfied sexually. Maybe you need the visual stimulation to actually get turned on or to orgasm. Many think that having sex with the same spouse is bound to become boring, repetitive dull and just plain unappealing but things couldnt be further from the truth. Many married couples who have been sexually active for years could testify that sex years later is much more satisfying and better than it was when they first got married. Porn can completely break this connection you have with your spouse.
    It is a BOUNDARY that should not be crossed for your own sake. I’ve heard one too many men and women express discontent with who they are with when they focus too much on what’s around them. The focus SHOULD be on your spouse and meeting their needs, not just in your guilty pleasures
    Now we’re back to fantasies and sexual thoughts. The command to not covet what your neighbor has is not just about wanting to take or possess what they have as wrong, but because this brings a dissatisfaction with what the Lord has given you. He asks us to not desire what others have because He gives to all of us according to what our needs are. You can be perfectly content with what you have until you find out what someone else has, this can bring feelings of envy, jealousy and lust.
    When you are constantly allowing your mind to wander to the what if’s, you can be setting yourself up for discontent. And discontent in what the Lord has given you greatly displeases and angers Him.

    (This is besides the fact that a spouse can “let themselves go” and become unappealing but that’s a whole different topic)

  37. BGR

    So here are the verses I will give you to discern what I have said.

    1 John 2:16
    For everything in the world—the lust of the FLESH, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

    Lusting after fleshly desires is indulging your body in sensual practices. Sensual practices is gratifying your body with sexual immorality and anything that feeds your body’s sexual desires. The only time your sexual desires are undefiled are within a marriage. Porn is not within a marriage, it is sexual practices outside of marriage and outside of your OWN marriage.

    Proverbs 6:25
    Do not lust in your heart AFTER HER BEAUTY or let her captivate you with her eyes.

    Again here they refer to a womans beauty or appeal. It is normal to find a beautiful woman sexually enticing, it is NOT normal to sit there and dwell on it and let it captive you (your thoughts) outside of marriage. Yes I know it is referencing a married woman in this instance, but any woman who you desire outside of being married to her is still sin. You said however that you could even imagine the neighbors wife naked and having sex with you and this would not be lust. But here it is clear that being enticed by her beauty and being captivated (fantasizing sexually) is going too far.

    James 1:14-15
    but each person is tempted when they are DRAGGED AWAY by their own evil DESIRE AND ENTICED. 15 Then, AFTER DESIRE HAS CONCIEVED, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

    To be “dragged away” by your own evil desire and “enticed” is making note of LETTING yourself be tempted and allowing the desire to sit in your heart until it becomes more. To let yourself be attracted or provoked into something sinful. When you allow yourself to be captivated by a womans beauty you are allowing yourself to be tempted into wanting her sexually (fantasies of sexual encounters, fantasies of seduction) and this can tempt you into actually wanting to do it. So it is giving caution of allowing your desires to tempt you into sin. Again to find someone sexually appealing is not the same as dwelling on it as you advocate that it is harmless to do so. Here it says otherwise.

    Romans 2:16
    In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel

    By secrets it means thoughts as well. It is known that our thoughts are secret to everyone around us. Of course it is also referring to any sin you hide from others, but our thoughts are one thing that are easy to hide.

    Job 31:1
    “I have made a covenant with my eyes; How then could I gaze at a virgin?
    Let’s not forget Job was a man the Lord was PLEASED with, as Job was a faithful man

    Psalm 101:3
    I will set no worthless thing before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not fasten its grip on me.

    Porn can be viewed as a worthless thing the world loves, porn is a worldly practice performed by worldly people, it should have no place in the homes of Christians or their minds.

    Philippians 4:8
    Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

    Can porn truly be called any of these things?

    Mark 7:20-22
    And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil THOUGHTS, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, DEEDS OF COVETING and wickedness, as well as deceit, SENSUALITY, envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

    Here is thoughts and sensuality. What evil thoughts are being addressed here? Fantasies are thoughts, and not every fantasy is a good one, sexual ones of anyone but your spouse is wrong.
    Sensuality means pleasing to the fleshly senses. It feeds fleshly desires. Porn is pleasurable to our senses and it has no spiritual foundation in it like sex within marriage does. In fact any type of sexual practice that has to do with anything outside of marriage is condemned. Porn does not reflect the image God intended out of sex.

    Philippians 2:2-8
    make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind REGARDING one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your OWN personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

    It is important to regard your wifes feelings when it comes to matters of porn, not just your own desires. While sex is important within marriage it is not to be made an idol of, and many men make it an idol, transforming their need for sex as a number one priority above all and justifying their fleshly impulses. It is absolutely possible to control your body and mind and conform it to the spirit. It is also good to regard how threatened wives feel by their husbands porn use because it is destroying their marriage in ways that could be preventable. I’m not talking about mere insecurity or jealousy, though again if a husband feels any of these things he can put a halt to his wife’s actions if he chooses but she can’t, so it is up to the husband to see things through his wife’s shoes and get real about it. The wife will also feel like her needs, feelings and her way of approaching sex do not matter and this can hurt the intimacy tremendously in marriage. Porn can become an idol for many men, porn is in the one using it best interest with disregard of the spouse. Sorry to get graphic, but If your wife likes looking at porno of men masturbating and they happen to be “big” individuals, you as a husband can get hurt over this and tell her to stop and all is good if she submits, but what of the other way around? It is selfish to excercise your authority over her and your ability to refuse a request of her simply because you dont want to regard her and wish to only care for your own interest in porn. If she doesn’t like It, you SHOULD consider It, not just write it off because you can. Regarding her interest in you stopping over your own interest to feed fleshly desires is the right thing to do and vice versa. Because it should not even be an issue like it is today.

    1 Corinthians 9:27
    but I DISCIPLINE MY BODY and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

    Again your fleshly impulses should not be excused, wanting to a see a man or woman that is not your husband or wife naked and having sex with IS a fleshly impulse, it is not holy or right. Impulses need to be controlled, it is an absolute lie for anyone to say they cannot control impulses.
    Pampering the body and giving in to fleshly lusts is being discouraged here.

    Galatians 5:19-21
    Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, SENSUALITY, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that THOSE WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Porn again is a way of practicing or engaging in sensuality. It only serves to please our sexual senses, nothing more. It is given unto our selfish and most carnal desires and is devoid of spirituality, which we are to regard as above our flesh. We cannot become one with the spirit when we give in constantly to our flesh.

    Romans 13:13
    Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and SENSUALITY, not in strife and jealousy.

    Ephesians 4:19-20
    and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to SENSUALITY for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way

    Proverbs 7:10-16
    And behold, a woman comes to meet him, Dressed as a HARLOT and cunning of heart. She is boisterous and rebellious, Her feet do not remain at home; She is now in the streets, now in the squares, And lurks by every corner.

    Here is the example of harlots, which too many women nowadays dress as them. Have you seen young women today? Celebrities? Everywhere you go you see images of “harlots”. It’s like the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck! If you’re not a prostitute, dont dress like one! However almost every female now does. I can’t go to the local mall with my husband and children anymore without seeing women of ALL ages, most alarming is young girls (11 or 12 WITH parents next to them) dressed as whores.
    I can see everything! They wear shorts too small to cover the bottom of their behinds, cleavage shirts barely covering the nipple or go braless and you can see their nipples poking through their thin sheer shirts, middrifts and sexy footwear for a day of walking around the mall of ALL places! Minidresses that almost reveal their bottoms which by the way they are also wearing a thong which is so evident when they bend over. How else can you describe this style of dressing? It is whorish, not prudish! A real Christian woman has no business dressing like harlots, a woman of God should not have such a need to tempt men into lusting after her! These women are not only provoking men to lust but causing men who do not want to be tempted to stumble or fall prey. Society has become too open sexually and this openness is most definitely NOT advocated in the bible. A woman can dress feminine and still look sexy and desirable WITHOUT spilling her breast and bottom out. My husband has pointed out plenty of women to me who are dressed modestly that still look quite sexy and beautiful without looking like harlots. It is very possible to look good without showing everything. However this dress attire goes with the acceptance of porn.
    If you accept porn and you accept a woman can dress provocatively without shame then what is different from a woman of God and a woman given unto the world in appearance?

    Can you explain why people back in the day wore long garments that covered their body from the neck down? Nobody dressed so openly like today. Men did not show off their arms, chest or abdomen and women did not show off their assets. Everyone’s body was for the most part covered at all times. The only ones who dressed openly and provocatively were typically sinful nations.

    My final question to you in all of these topics is where does Satan lie in all of this? I noticed in all of your articles you make NO mention of Satan. Jesus made mention of Satan and hell numerous times. It is not something that should be omitted. Satan has a strong grip on the world and how it operates. Porn is of the devil, it has more in common with evil than it does with good. Everything concerning sex has been broken down in ways that sinful practices are perceived as normal within all societies. Porn is perceived as a normal practice now that men and women engage in that make their sex lives more “fullfilling” make sex with a long term partner “bareable” and “fun” and something that everyone should learn from and make normal within relationships. Many young men and women turn to porn to “learn” about sex and what sex should look like. It is absolutely disgusting. It is devoid of intimacy and love and purity and basically everything God designed sex to be within a marriage.
    Yes sex is about pleasure as well, but it is NOT just about that, and porn ONLY shows the pleasure of sex. As well as sinful practices.
    This IS the devils world and he has broken down sex in ways that now you cannot escape temptation, lust, and fleshly desires so easily.
    It is EVERYWHERE you go, and men are mainly under attack. It is almost impossible for men to stay pure and virgin until marriage nowadays. To not become corrupted with sexual immorality whether mentally or physically because the devil has made it so.
    Like I said even very young girls are wearing dresses that look lile something a 21 year old would wear to a nightclub. Almost every female shows off their body in ways that entice and cause men to lust after them and you end up with sexual immorality everywhere.

    I’m not sure why you advocate that dressing provocatively is ok, to desire sex with random females and letting your imagination run wild is ok, but I look forward to what you think of all of those bible verses and how you can justify porn use, to give in willfully to the ability to allow yourself to be mentally enticed and excusing women to dress without modesty.

  38. RandomGirl,

    You have fired off a lot of questions here and I am happy to answer them but we will need to do this one piece at a time. But before I begin responding to your questions regarding my position on porn I am actually in the midst of writing an article on our last discussion regarding boundaries.

    Once we get through that we can come back to this when we get done with that discussion feel free to remind me about this discussion if I forget to come back to it.

    I would recommend you do some further reading on my positions regarding human sexuality and specifically porn to better understand my position as this article you posted the comment on does not go into great detail on my position as other posts do.

    Specifically see this post and the links within to other articles I wrote on the subject of porn:

    https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2016/10/16/christian-blogger-says-porn-is-good/

    And then after reading those articles check this one out:

    https://biblicalgenderroles.com/how-does-watching-porn-and-masturbating-glorify-god/

  39. @Random,

    You’ve raised a lot of points, but I’d like to focus specifically on the Proverbs verses about women dressed as “harlots.” The first point that I’d like to make is that the passage talks about far more than just how that woman is dressed. It talks about how she speaks and acts. It doesn’t just come to her dress. It comes to the fact that she is deliberately speaking and acting in a way to incite lust in a man that is not her husband. She isn’t merely displaying her looks; she’s actively trying to get a man to have sex with her. The other important point deals with what that passage means when it refers to a woman dressing like a harlot. It doesn’t simply mean that she’s dr sing in a sexually enticing way. It means that she is wearing certain clothes, colors, or patterns that indicate to people that she is a prostitute. Historically, even in ancient times, prostitutes were required by law to dress in a way that clearly indicated their job. We see this in Genesis when Tamar veils her face to take on the guise of a prostitute. She wasn’t just doing that to hide her identity. She was doing it to mark herself to Judah as a prostitute. And even today, when prostitution is illegal and therefore unregulated, prostitutes who advertise on street corners still make it clear to potential customers that they’re literally selling sex in the way that they act and talk and where they’re presenting themselves.

  40. BGR

    Ok we will finish our discussion on boundaries first and then come back to this. I just want to answer some things that were in your other articles. I saw your links and I know where you’re coming from but still its very iffy for several reasons.

    One being the arguement of porn existing in the past and the other is using masturbation and porn to stop yourself from actually commiting forbidden sexual acts.

    I would argue that a painting, a drawing, a sculpture or any of the sort is NOT in the same league as a real woman stripping and having sex with real men for the viewing pleasure of others.
    I am aware that there is animated Porn, and that artists like sculpting perfect human bodies as a form of art.
    I would argue that there is no real sin in this as these are not real people and they are only a representation of reality.
    I get porn is a form of fantasy, but the difference is that it is real people and lusting after a real woman is obviously a sin while lusting after a “cartoon” or “statue” so to speak would not, actually the accurate thing to say is a cartoon or statue would NOT cause you to lust at all. However porn of the same caliber that exists now did NOT exist back in the day.

    Let me ask you a personal question. If your daughter wanted to become a stripper, would you let her?

    But on the topic of using porn and masturbation in order to not commit sexual immorality, I believe this is why God said that if a man or woman will be caused to stumble sexually they should get married.
    God will provide you with a spouse if He knows not having one will cause you to stumble.
    Let me say something that might not be popular now but it was common practice back then.
    People use to get married as teenagers back then, practically considered adults once they “woke” sexually (hit puberty) which means between 12-15 years old on average.
    This makes sense, since the time span between being able to actually engage in sex would reduce tremendously as opposed to what our culture and law dictate people should begin engaging sexually or getting married. Also biologically speaking women can concieve and give birth to children with more ease and better health when they do it younger.
    Nowadays modern laws and society see teens as children and not ready for marriage or sex when in fact they are and they should be allowed these liberties because they are the ones that stumble the most.
    This kind of thinking is what has also lead many to believe teens should not be held responsible like “adults” for commiting certain crimes or not have “sex talks” with them.
    It is a lie that teenagers are unable to raise children or be responsible. Culture enables teens to still behave very childish and gives them too many freedoms that keep them from becoming mature and responsible. Even adults nowadays still behave quite childish so it’s like people are taking longer to actually become mature responsible adults.

    So that’s my take on your arguement that porn is acceptable. Pornographic material that is in the form of cartoon drawing statues or anything else is not sinful (however in my opinion its a bit weird lol)
    And if people were allowed still to marry and actually engage in sex from the moment they hit puberty there would be less “waiting” and less frustration.
    Also if women stopped walking around half naked every single day it would help things tremendously wouldnt you agree?
    You can’t deny that sometimes you might be minding your business and just focusing on work or shopping or whatever and then out of nowhere comes this hot little thing prancing around half naked, and all of a sudden you can’t get sex out of your mind. And its not just one, but hundreds of them all over the place.
    It is one thing to love sex and think about it from time to time on your own, it’s another when your getting visually stimulated literally all day long on a daily basis. THIS is the new reality now for men all over the world, this simply doesn’t help. And this is not what God intended society to do.
    Of course men love this but when you know you are forbidden to act on any of this of course it becomes a frustration and you need an outlet.
    To me porn feeds into this.
    You might see maybe 20 or 30 half naked women all day and by the end of the day be sexually aroused and sexually hungry. Then you turn to porn to fullfill the fantasy you probably couldnt really engage in all day due to work school or other things going on occupying your time. You see young naked girls and you get your visual stimulation from all day finally satisfied and take care of your pent up sexual frustration.
    This wouldnt be the case if women dressed modestly and porn wasnt at your disposal like it is now.
    What would happen is instead of being in a sexual high all day from visual stimulation, your sex drive would be on more normal levels so to speak and you would come home to be satisfied with your wife as God calls you to be.
    I believe this is where Satan catches you with wicked practices, caused by the sexually immoral.

    Let me get a little personal, In my block alone, I see several young women dressed very provocatively, I myself use to be one of these women when I was in my teens and 20-22, before I was saved. My husband works maintenance for a housing company. He enters people’s homes on a daily basis, he drives up and down our block and nearby apartments all day. He SEES half naked women walking in the streets and happens to be inside many of their homes on almost a daily basis. I can only imagine how hard it is for him to not lust and not fall prey to a temptress. Many of these women are “easy” and flirts and I’m sure he has gotten many of them on his case, he hasn’t admitted to any of this however.
    I can’t deny that I wonder how faithful he really has been, I can only say that I would have a very hard time if I was him. In his case, it is easy to enter a sexually immoral womans home, need to fix something in her house, have her walking around half naked (my husband has admitted to this only) and I imagine have them flirt with you, engage with you and have no one else around to witness anything happening and have the ability to enter their home in the future multiple times with an excuse.
    My husband says he does his best to flee temptation and that he’s devoted to God, but again how hard must this be for him? He has admitted that these young ladies walk around in pjs sometimes, with no bra, or “booty shorts” and just lounge around while he works, or talk with him, he says he can see their form and body clearly and the close proximity and revealing clothing gets distracting and it angers him. He has told me he wishes they would just not do this so he wouldn’t be tempted.

    I’m gonna go ahead and say that women are contributing to this problem big time. If women performed their sexual duties like they should, if women dressed modestly, if porn didnt exist, if women took care of their bodies and took care of themselves, if women didnt become prostitutes or strippers, men really couldnt do much about deviating away from their wives as much. They would really have to go out of their way and sin in order to satisfy this “polygamous” desire.
    Truth is sin enables sin.
    Let’s be real, even if a man could afford 5 wives or more, those 5 wives would eventually stop satisfying him too.
    I’m sure you don’t just stick to 4 or 5 women online that you fancy. I’m sure you have hundreds of options to indulge in.
    Reality is theres no escaping this need of “more”
    In my opinion there is plenty of biblical proof that giving in to this “need of more” is sinful and not natural.

    Here is why I disagree with your belief that it’s ok to watch sinful media as long as you don’t participate in it.
    What your advocating is influence.
    It is false to claim that you can watch sinful things and not be influenced by them.
    The more you dwell on “worldly” things, the more desentisized you become to it and the more “accepting” or “tolerant” you become of it.
    This is why it is absolutely not recommended you do this.
    We have done this in the past. We have cut off everything that is worldly from our lives before. No worldly music nothing but worship music. No worldly movies. We don’t hang out with worldly friends, we don’t watch tv shows that propagate worldly practices.( We use to love watching 2 and a half men back then as an example) etc.
    It made a world of difference for us. When we would come acroas sinful things it was a bit shocking and distasteful. The sin was very evident to us.
    I will admit we have recently begun sliding back into our old selves again.
    We started being ok with watching worldly tv shows once again, here and there, we begun to not be so bothered by worldly talk once again, especially in music (think lyrics that talks about fornication, murder, drug use and the like.) Truth is we become accustom to it.
    We are to hate sin as much as God does.
    When you say it’s ok to watch it as long as you don’t participate, in my opinion it is not accurate or wise.
    If you were to hate it as much as God does (which we are to become like Him so we would naturally come to despise sin as well) you would NOT be ok with watching sinful practices.
    Watching people fornicate and engage in sexual activities because it happened to be in some movie your watching is influencing you little by little. Hanging out with worldly friends who constantly tempt you and engage in sinful activities in front of you will drag you into their corrupt lifestyle. We are to flee temptation not be comfortable with it as long as you don’t do it.
    Homosexuality is become prominent in all sorts of media. The idea behind it? To make it seem normal and make us tolerant of it.
    You can say well I’m ok with watching homosexuality on tv as long as I don’t do it, thats wrong.
    That’s wrong thinking in my opinion based on scriptures that ask us to flee immoral things and despise immoral things.
    We should dwell on good things.
    Not dwell on good AND sinful things as long as we don’t participate in sin.
    You are to work at getting away from sin and closer to the spirit while living in a sinful world. We are to be the light of the world. When a Christian engages in the same worldly things as sinners, we don’t stand out.
    I’m not saying practice things that are clearly not biblical( for example I heard of a Christian couple who decided to abstain in marriage so they could be more “holy” *SHUDDERS*)
    But you seem to be advocating to be OK with what is of the world, as long as you draw a line with yourself.
    My husband has a coworker that believes sinful things are ok to sometimes do because God forgives and “understands” and he believes it is ok for others to practice sinful things as long as like you said, you yourself dont participate in them. For example he is ok with women performing abortions but he says he would never allow his wife to do it because they are Christian.
    Is this accurate?
    He doesn’t believe that we should turn away or confront these things in others, it is enough if we simply don’t engage in them.

    It’s like saying let the world be sinful, I’ll watch from afar, even enjoy and indulge in some of those things from afar, but I won’t actually DO any of that myself.
    I feel like viewing porn is the same thing. It is a practice in sensuality, made by sinners, a worldly practice to corrupt sex within marriage and make the intimacy within marriage something that is “not enough” and “hard to cope with without”
    But you feel safe because you’re not actually commiting these sinful practices yourself, you’re just watching others do it and enjoying it.

    Just to give a bit of background me and my husband were constant porn users,( I actually liked watching videos of pornographic material, my husband was more of the pornographic pictures kind of guy. He disliked watching people have sex but really enjoyed looking at a womans body and beauty in different sexual positions.
    I reveal this only to show you we are not prudish individuals who were raised in strict Catholic or Christian backgrounds, far from it, and we have felt a drastic change for the better when we dropped such things from our lives.

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