Do Christian wives have to submit to Bondage and Sadomasochism requests from their husbands?

“My husband has begun to practice your “7 Ways to Discipline Your Wife” plan on me because I will not participate in the BDSM activities that he desires. I want to have sex with him! Just not with BDSM.” – This is part of an email I received from a Christian wife who calls herself Olivia.

So is refusal to participate in BDSM activities as a form of sexual foreplay the same as sexually denying one’s spouse?

What is BDSM?

This is the definition of BDSM according to Wikipedia:

“The term BDSM is first recorded in a Usenet posting from 1991, and is interpreted as a combination of the abbreviations B/D (Bondage and Discipline), D/s (Dominance and submission), and S/M (Sadism and Masochism).”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM

This is another definition of Bondage from Wikipedia:

“Bondage is the practice of consentually tying, binding, or restraining a partner for erotic, aesthetic, and/or somatosensory stimulation. Rope, cuffs, bondage tape, self-adhering bandage, or other restraints may be used for this purpose.

Bondage itself does not necessarily imply sadomasochism. Bondage may be used as an end into itself, as in the case of rope bondage and breast bondage. It may also be used as a part of sex or in conjunction with other BDSM activities. The letter “B” in the acronym “BDSM” comes from the word “bondage”. Sexuality and erotica are an important aspect in bondage, but are often not the end in itself. Aesthetics also plays an important role in bondage.

A common reason for the active partner to tie up their partner is so both may gain pleasure from the restrained partner’s submission and the feeling of the temporary transfer of control and power. For sadomasochistic people, bondage is often used as a means to an end, where the restrained partner is more accessible to other sadomasochistic behaviour. However, bondage can also be used for its own sake. The restrained partner can derive tactile pleasure from the feeling of helplessness and immobility, and the active partner can derive visual pleasure and satisfaction from seeing their partner tied up.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondage_(BDSM)

So in summary BDSM is when one person consensually allows themselves to be tied up and possibly punished by another person and may even endure physical pain either for their own pleasure or for someone else’s pleasure. BDSM may or may not be used as foreplay for sex.

Before I give my response to Olivia’s dilemma here is her full statement to me.

Olivia’s Story

“BGR,

My husband has begun to practice your “7 Ways to Discipline Your Wife” plan on me because I will not participate in the BDSM activities that he desires. I want to have sex with him! Just not with BDSM. He says my unwillingness to submit to BDSM practices is a form of sexual denial and I’m not fulfilling my Christian duty if I don’t do this for him. We have been married for 18 years. I have followed his desires and tried to even initiate sex for all our 18 years of marriage. I even tried the BDSM stuff a few times to see if I could do it. I hate it! Every possible scenario. Sex doesn’t happen until he has finished “the game”. I’m done!

I want a normal (whatever that is) sex life. No more “games”. Just us in the bedroom with nothing but skin. Mad passionate sex! Yank each other’s clothes off, can’t wait to touch you, sex – which has never happened. I’m going through menopause, he says I don’t have any sexual desires right now. I do, it’s just not what he wants. I have prayed, cried out to God for wisdom, we went to marriage counseling, nothing has changed. And now he sends me links to your site and gives me the ultimatum.

He says his “needs” aren’t being met and I’m sexually unavailable for him. I’ve already gone through the steps you have given on what to do. Talked with our pastor (with him), counseling, confront him, pray. I’m not an outspoken kind of person, just someone who is trying to save” her marriage. He is a good man, he has some control issues, but most of his actions are from a Godly heart. Any help would be great.”

My Response to Olivia and the issue of BDSM as it relates to Christians

Requests for BDSM come not only from some husbands as is the case in Olivia’s story, but sometimes they actually come from Christian wives too.  I know of a Christian man whose wife left if him for another man because he refused to practice BDSM as sexual foreplay.  She wanted to be tied up and gagged with a ball in her mouth and she wanted to act out rape fantasies with him. She wanted him to be rough with her and choke her during sex.  He thought this was disgusting and refused to act out these fantasies with her.  So she found another man who would and eventually left her husband for that man.

So how should a Christian husband or wife respond to requests for BDSM from their spouse? I believe the answers are clear when we understand the Biblical associations of bondage and pain.

Christians should not seek pleasure through bondage and pain

The Bible associates bondage and pain with this world that has been corrupted with sin.

“Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.”

Romans 8:21 (KJV)

“But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?”

Galatians 4:9 (KJV)

“To the woman he said, “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth, in pain you will bring forth children; yet your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

Genesis 3:16 (NASB)

No Christian ought to take pleasure from being bound or binding someone else. No Christian out to take pleasure from causing themselves pain or causing pain to others.

Christians should embrace liberty and healing

Rather than seeking enjoyment through bondage and pain, Christians should seek freedom and healing both for themselves and those around them.

“18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”

Luke 4:18-19 (KJV)

 “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”

Revelation 21:4 (KJV)

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”

Galatians 5:21 (KJV)

What about fluffy handcuffs and silk ties?

When I talk about Christians not submitting themselves to bondage for sexual pleasure I am not talking about a wife playfully taking some clothes and tying her own hands around the bedpost or using fluffy handcuffs that she can easily get out of it.  These are playful things.  Just check out those links above and you will see the disgusting types of bondage activities I am talking about (warning some images on Wikipedia regarding BDSM are graphic).

What if my spouse refuses to have sex with me without BDSM?

I am not sure but I believe this may be the case with Olivia. If your spouse refuses to have sex unless you engage in BDSM foreplay then it is they who are in fact sexually denying you.  If this is the case and you are a husband I suggest you follow the steps outlined in my article “8 Steps to confront your wife’s sexual refusal”.  If you are a wife and this is the case then I suggest you follow the steps outlined in my article “4 Steps to confronting your husband’s sexual refusal”.

Get counseling for people who have BDSM fetishes

If your spouse is willing to –encourage them to seek out a good Biblical Christian counselor who can help them overcome these sinful desires.  In many ways people who have BDSM desires are really no different than those who have homosexual or bisexual desires.  These desires are all sinful corruptions of the natures that God gave us.

“If you don’t think wife’s can refuse sex to their husbands you must be into BDSM!”

I can’t tell you how many times I have been accused in emails of being a person who enjoys BDSM with my wife because of my view that a wife cannot sexually refuse her husband. Let me be perfectly clear.  I have never nor will I ever engage in BDSM practices with my wife.

People write me on almost a daily basis with statements like “Why would any man want to have sex with a woman who does not want to have sex with him?” My answer to them is simple – no normal man wants his wife to be refusing him for sex.  No normal man enjoys sex with his wife when she does it grudgingly in the way he enjoys it when she gives herself freely to him. But he realizes that sex must occur in marriage for many reasons even when his wife may not be in the mood.  This is not the optimal situation and this is not what a loving husband wants.

But let me be clear that a husband accepting his wife’s grudging and reluctant consent to sex and then engaging in sex with her under those conditions is not the same as a man who takes pleasure in forcing BDSM activities on his wife. 

In the first case – the husband gets no pleasure from acting against his wife’s will, in the second case the majority of the husband’s pleasure actually comes from acting against his wife’s will.

And just for all the rape accusers out there.  When I say a husband “acting against his wife’s will” I am talking about her mood and desire for sex.  I have said it repeatedly on this site that while I do not believe that Biblically speaking there is such a thing as “marital rape” I do believe that a husband who physically forces himself sexually on his wife is engaging in physical abuse and he is abusing the authority God have given him over his wife.  When I say a husband is “acting against his wife’s will” in the first case – it is where she reluctantly or grudgingly gives CONSENT to sexual relations, but make no mistake consent is given.

And sorry rape accusers – consent does not have to be “enthusiastic consent” or its rape as you like to say.   Grownups realize that whether it is comes to sex, or going to our jobs or doing many other things in life – sometimes we consent do doing things unenthusiastically because we know we should even though we don’t feel like it.

Conclusion

If your spouse tries to do what Oliva’s husband has done and attempts to say you are sexually denying them because you refuse to participate in BDSM activities as foreplay to sex you need to let them know your conviction that these acts violate your conscious and you feel that God would not want you as a Christian participating in them. Be sure to be loving when you do this.  Especially if you are a wife you need to really do this with a great deal of respect and reference for your husband.

What Olivia so longs for with her husband – “Just us in the bedroom with nothing but skin. Mad passionate sex! Yank each other’s clothes off, can’t wait to touch you, sex” is a desire that has been given to her by God and she should feel no shame in that. Her husband on the other hand, needs to realize that his desires for BDSM foreplay with his wife are not desires that God gave him.  They are a corruption of the original nature God gave him and he needs to recognize them as such and repent.  He most likely needs to seek out a Biblical Christian counselor to help him to deal with these sinful desires to cultivate a natural sexual desire for his wife as she has natural sexual desire for him.

If her husband refuses to have sex with her until she agrees to BDSM as foreplay to sex then she practice the steps outlined in my article “4 Steps to confronting your husband’s sexual refusal”.

And just a closing note to husbands like Olivia’s. Never on this site have I ever told men they can divorce their wives for sexual performance issues – only sexual denial.  Those are completely different things.  I have men all the time writing me asking me things like “If my wife won’t perform oral sex on me can I divorce her for sexual refusal” and I always answer them with a resounding NO!

Many men and women may lack in the sexual performance area but just because your spouse won’t perform sexual acts (outside of intercourse) does not mean you can leave them.  You need to first examine if what you are asking for is Biblically acceptable sexual behavior. If it is then speak with them gently about it.  If they refuse then pray for them.

In other words as Christian husbands we should NOT punish our wives because they won’t do certain things like wear lingerie, act in sexy ways toward us or perform oral sex on us.  

However I do believe that we can use positive reinforcement to encourage our wives to act outside their comfort zones in the area of sexual performance.  Basically you let your wife see by your actions (not your words) that when she “steps it up” in the bedroom by doing things outside her comfort zone that in response you “step it up” outside the bedroom by doing extra nice things for her.

Advertisements

22 thoughts on “Do Christian wives have to submit to Bondage and Sadomasochism requests from their husbands?

  1. In the interest of keeping most of my personal life to myself I will say that I, for the most part, agree with you on this subject. Certainly a husband or wife should not be denying their spouse sex simply because they will not participate in something they are not comfortable with, and heavy BDSM that involves some pretty nasty stuff, should never be practiced by Christians. I would, however, say that I disagree about deriving pleasure from pain. Women’s bodies are odd and wonderful things, and women tend to have a higher pain tolerance than men do. Sometimes that tolerance can turn SIMPLE pain into something pleasurable (ie: a hard smack on the bottom, etc), but every woman is different and a couple should, hopefully, get to know one another well enough to make those types of determinations.

    Anyhow, that’s as far as I care to go with the subject, but overall I would agree with the general concept that has been put forth.

  2. Snapper, you raise a really good point there about women’s ability to derive pleasure from some playful roughness. Some women can definitely tolerate a higher degree of pain, as you’ve said, so something like a nip on the neck or a smack on the bottom can feel good rather than painful. I’d say that there’s a level where it’s hard enough to produce a jolt of good physical sensations but not gentle enough that it doesn’t make you cry out in pain.

    All in all, I think that playful roughness like you’re describing or light bondage with implements that the woman can easily get out of are pretty different heavy BDSM. There’s a big difference between a playful smack and repeatedly hitting someone with an implement to cause pain, for example. Furthermore, those aren’t really dangerous activities whereas as heavier bondage and sadomasochistic behavior can very easily cause severe injuries if done improperly (or in the case of choking, even if done “properly”).

  3. Although you’re right that taking pleasure in bondage and pain is sinful and perversion of God’s design, and that He didn’t originally intend pain and bondage to be done, pain and bondage are not, in and of themselves, sinful as God authorizes physical discipline, which causes pain, for adults and kids alike in Proverbs, says expressly that physical discipline should be painful to bring correction of foolish behavior(Proverbs 20:29-30), and God used pain and bondage to punish Israel in the past for defying Him and violating their covenant with him. He’d send famines(which cause pain and suffering), and allow them to be conquered and oppressed by an enemy(put into bondage) for a number of years, either in their land or the enemy’s land, both as ways of disciplining Israel. So if a man, perhaps, decides to use spankings or bondage in confinement for a few hours as a means of discipline and punishment of his wife for sinful rebellion and behavior against God and him(if she has no intention of leaving in the latter case), if all other means of doing so failed, then he could and it wouldn’t be sinful against God. He would be doing it not to derive pleasure from her pain or anything like it, but rather out of love because he loves her and wants her to be the Godly woman and wife that both God and himself want her to be, which won’t be possible so long as she is unrepentantly sinful and rebellious against both God and her husband. Just a small point that occurred to me that you didn’t have here. Wonderful article, and I agree completely that the nature of BDSM and such is a perversion of God’s design in man and woman alike.

  4. BGR, very ironic timing for this post as I just finished reading a blog written by a lady who engages (consensually) in a BDSM marriage (and this is NOT because I am thinking of trying it out in my own marriage, I just happen to personally know this woman and wanted to know a little more about her marriage).

    I can relate to the desire to give up control for a little bit. Not trying to be too TMI here, but often when I am very stressed out, I feel like my life is too big for me and I am responsible for too many things. This normally relates to being the breadwinner of the family even though I am the wife. When this happens I normally will say something sassy (and obviously joking so my husband doesn’t feel like I’m being disrespectful). This provokes a wrestling match which he will always win being a good deal stronger than me. That helps me release the stress and tension and I realize that he is still the man of the family. This to me is VERY different than BDSM. He uses laughter (often through tickling) instead of pain which is a world of difference. I would argue that BDSM is a perversion of this very natural desire.

    I don’t understand why people would accuse you of being into BDSM as you also argue that men cannot sexually refuse their wives.and either way it has nothing to do with BDSM. I’m gonna guess this is more of the extreme dumb/hateful responses you get. We don’t see eye to eye on everything, but bad strawmen never accomplish anything. 😦

    However, I think it is good to see where our ideas take us and, perhaps unintentionally, others. The idea of spousal discipline leads to the acceptance of physical discipline, which has led to the acceptance of binding one’s wife for a few hours as Tyler has hinted at above. How people come up with some of this stuff is just beyond me. It’s unfortunate people do that because, even when we disagree, I can respect the heart behind your ideas (not so much the heart behind nonconsensually tying/spanking one’s wife). I am always glad to be married to my husband, but tonight I’m extra glad. 

  5. Are we really moving from spanking as punishment for adults to keeping someone tied up and imprisoned for hours? Sure, I was put in time out occasionally as a kid, but I was never confined without outside contact for hours at a time. (The idea was more you have to stay in this space for fifteen minutes, or longer if necessary, rather than “playing” and causing trouble. It wasn’t hardcore solitary confinement.) I was also never blind or physically restrained at any point–more like stuck in a play pen or confined to my room. Finally, it’s really, really bad for circulation to keep someone bound for several hours. You’re talking about potential for severe and permanent harm there.

  6. @Alex @Anna Never said anything about harmful treatment, as the husband is doing this out of love in the occasion of my comment in question, and as such would make sure not to harm her and that she remained unhurt during her confinement(being grounded basically, except more severe since shes an adult who should know better than to behave this way) to ensure she isn’t hurt, while at the same time taking away freedoms she would normally have had in punishment so shes forced think and reflect on her wicked actions and why her husband did this, that she may realize her errors and repent of her sin. The idea and what i said is sound, and Biblically accurate without sin, though it is unusual. Hope this clears up an confusion or misunderstanding.

  7. Tyler, that doesn’t clear anything up. You’re making huge leaps of logic. There is no link between God letting nations conquer Israel and a husband tying up his wife. That’s assuming that because God does something, a husband automatically should as well. I understand the whole ‘Christ and the church’ example that marriage is supposed to be, but at some point, you’re going to have to recognize that you’re not God. God can do things that husbands cannot (one of which would be dying for our sins so don’t get too jealous). God also allowed for the Israelites to kill each other in response to their sin with the golden calf (Exodus 32). I’m hoping that that’s not something you plan to implement with your family.

    It’s also extremely illogical to think that taking away freedoms forces her to think on her sins. You can’t control what someone else thinks. The far more likely result is she will change her behavior out of fear (actual fear of you…yay, you’re now a bully), or she will leave, either out of separation or a divorce. For me, I would probably temporarily live with a friend/family until he promised that wasn’t going to happen again, but there is a chance I’d be overcome with fear and spend the rest of my life walking on eggshells around him.

    You also can’t just add ‘out of love’ and think that magically makes everything ok. Sin is still sin, regardless of if it’s done ‘out of love’. If I’m remembering correctly, a woman earlier on this site tried to argue that she wasn’t having sex with her husband out of love, and that was promptly and soundly rejected as it should be. Again, God spoke things into existence, not husbands. Just because you say something is out of love doesn’t make it loving. Honestly, this just sounds like you think bondage and beatings are ok until they become consensual and then they’re not. Which is just sad.

  8. BGR, I’m still genuinely shocked we’re even having this conversation. This site loses its mind whenever a woman says no to sex (and, for those who will try yet again to misquote me, I’m still not ok with sexual denial), but apparently this kind of behavior is just “eh, i personally wouldnt’ do it, but whatevs”. And we wonder why we’re losing the culture war in America.

  9. Tyler, you mention God allowing His people to suffer famine or go into bondage. It seems that your logic would allow a husband to go even further–depriving his wife of food, for example, because God did that to Israel. The problem is that God has literal power of life and death over His people, able to go as far as striking them dead for serious crimes against Him. I understand the Old Testament prescribed execution as a punishment for adultery and lying about one’s virginity, but I don’t think that there are any other places in the Bible where husbands have power over their wife’s life. I understand that you’re not saying that a husband could kill his wife for disobedience, but if we start to take God’s example of disciplining Israel too literally, that’s where we arrive.

  10. AnnaMS, I’m guessing that BGR either hasn’t had time to check the comments or reply yet.

    Btw, since I’m not sure if I’ve said this yet, congratulations on your son’s birth!

  11. @Anna This will be my last comment on this article. Indeed, which is why I said in my comment that the husband should do this while watching out for her to make sure she isn’t hurt, and why I also said this or physical discipline are not to be done EXCEPT as absolute last resorts should all else fail in the first comments I made. As to a husband not being God, true, but God wouldn’t do anything as a Husband, in general, He didn’t want us doing, so a small-scale variation of some of the things he did(he didn’t rob them completely of food, or allow them to wiped out completely, just punished them for disobedience), like what I said here where the wife is hurt, just confined and forced to reflect on the evil she did to be put there, all the while not hurt or suffering and the husband looking out for her to make sure she doesn’t get hurt, are not sinful or wicked to God as they are being done in genuine effort to lead the wife from sin and back to God and her husband, whom she has been rebelling against. If she leaves, then the sin still lies with her, as shes just further rebelling against a husband who, out of love, is trying to lead her back to God. That doesn’t make the husband a bully if she repents out of fear of him, or God, or if she leaves him out of further rebellion. But the husband has done this out of love for her, and in effort to compel her to repent of sin, not out of sadistic desire for revenge or hate. Nothing I’ve said is sinful. Everything is simply an example of discipline in effort to punish sin and compel repentance. Unless you can prove what I said sinful expressly in Scripture, then it isn’t as God doesn’t say these things can’t be used(He did more severe versions Himself to Israel at times), and husband doing them out of love to lead his wife from sin therefore would not be sinful. There are things, like condemnation and Divine Judgement of sin, which only God can do, but discipline is authorized for humans by Him.

    @Alex This will be my last comment on this article. Read what I wrote to Anna in the above paragraph, and you’ll know that I don’t think depriving of food is to be done, as God didn’t do that, He just gave them less, but they still had enough to live. It was just less plentiful. I did not say a husband had power over his wife’s life the way God does, but he does have the power to bring discipline into her life and punish sin anyway he can and that proves necessary to compel her to repent of rebellion and sinful actions against both God and her husband himself that the wife has been knowingly and deliberately doing, despite knowing better. God’s example of judging by death is something only He has any right to do, as its Divine Judgement of sin. SO of course, a husband can’t do that because he isn’t God. He has no condemning power to judge.

    I have not intended to ignite any rage arguments or any such thing, just to give some pointers that, though not sinful, were possible to confront sin in a wife and try to, in love, lead her from sin. But since I did, I am finishing off my part in these discussions. I apologize if I have offended anyone, and sorry BGR for this. It wasn’t my intention.

  12. Tyler, for my part, I’m not offended. I disagree with some of the points you raised here, and I think that the methods that you’ve proposed sound extreme (and, like Anna said, are probably more likely to cause the wife to flee her husband, seek a divorce, or even pursue legal action against him rather than reflect on any of her own sins), but that’s about it.

  13. Tyler and AnnaMS,

    First I just have to say WOW. I did not see this rabbit trail coming off BDSM but that is the fun of having a blog. Sometimes topics can go in directions that you did not expect.

    Since I have been doing this site for two years I have had the opportunity to privately and occasionally publicly talk to people on both extremes of this issue of the discipline of wives.

    One extreme in my view is to say anything God did with the nation of Israel we as husbands may do with his wives. I know that is not what Tyler is saying but he comes closer to it with his comments about men being able to put their wives in bondage because God let Israel be conquered by other nations. So Tyler would represent what I think is the extreme position on the right. But AnnaMS in my view represents the left extreme in this that a man has no authority whatsoever to discipline his wife.

    AnnaMS’s Statement:

    “However, I think it is good to see where our ideas take us and, perhaps unintentionally, others. The idea of spousal discipline leads to the acceptance of physical discipline, which has led to the acceptance of binding one’s wife for a few hours as Tyler has hinted at above.”

    AnnaMS – please correct me if I am misinterpreting you. First let me say “spousal discipline” is an incorrect description. It implies the gender neutral discipline by either spouse over the other and assigns equality between a husband and wife where the Bible does not give such equality. So if someone were to ask me if believe in “spousal discipline” I would say NO I do not. I do however believe in “wife discipline” – meaning husbands are to discipline their wives. However as I pointed out several times on this I do not believe husbands should physically discipline their wives and I do not physically discipline my wife.

    Anna you are making a logic leap in the same way Tyler is – just in a different direction. Tyler and other Christians I know take the Biblical concept that we can look at God’s behavior as husband toward Israel or Christ’s behavior to his bride the Church and then do almost ANYTHING God did with his wife even if only a smaller scale. That is not proof that to believe in “wife discipline” is wrong, it is only proof that any sound Biblical principle can be taken to an extreme.

    Anna – while you would disagree that the Bible allows husbands to discipline their wives at all – I know you would not disagree that parents are clearly given the right and responsibility by God to discipline their children including physically. But would you say we should throw out “child discipline” in the same way you want to throw out “wife discipline” because some parents take “child discipline” to extremes God never intended? There are parents who lock their children in dark closets for hours and do other types of horrific mental and physical abuse to them – this does not make the discipline of children wrong but only the abuse of it.

    So I say all that to say I still consider both you and Tyler my friends but I stand in the middle of both of you. I do believe husbands have a right and responsibility to discipline their wives unlike you AnnaMS – but I also think that there are some extreme positions among those who accept a man’s right and responsibility to discipline his wife and I think Tyler falls in that group on this issue.

    I hope this makes my position clear and I thank you Tyler for not continuing this discussion as I think we have all made our positions clear.

  14. When I said ‘spousal discipline’, I meant ‘wife discipline’. I thought contextually, that would be clear, but I definitely should have clarified. Thanks for pointing that out.

    I actually do think that some wife discipline is appropriate. It just looks different than what is often portrayed on this blog. When I say something rude or disrespectful to my husband, he normally raises his eyes and asks in a meaningful (but non-threatening) tone “you want to rephrase that?” I asked him what he would do if I became financially unwise and ran up lots of charges on our credit card and he said he would take away the credit card, against my wishes if necessary, and I agreed with him that this would be very appropriate. That isn’t meant to be a conclusive list, but those are what I can come up with off the top of my head. And I would agree that both of these would be VERY inappropriate for me to do to my husband. I did once ask him if he thought he was treating me the way Christ would, but that was not meant to be a correction at all, more of an appeal because I thought I was being treated wrongly (which he went on to admit was in fact the case and he was actually very thankful for my respectfully asked question).

    And no, I would not say that because some people abuse their children means that nobody should be allowed to spank. However, I absolutely do believe that when we hear of parents who do things like lock their children in closets, it is very appropriate to come out in heavy condemnation of that, rather than a “huh, that’s interesting…I guess the Bible never specifically says we can’t do that”.

    There are people who legitimately think that unless the Bible specifically condemns something, it is automatically okay for people to do. I know of a man who used this technique to force his 9-month pregnant wife to walk 2+ miles home in 100+ degree weather. She didn’t have heatstroke so people like Tyler might say “well he didn’t hurt her”. but that was very clearly an unloving thing to do. They are no longer married and I honestly do not blame her. She didn’t leave him over that, but his behavior here unsurprisingly resulted in him being very physically abusive towards both her and their children.

  15. @Anna Actually, I would consider that abuse since his wife was pregnant and in need of his love and support, and what he did was unnecessary. What did he did that for exactly? Note, I’m not continuing the above topic, just curious. And she had the right to divorce for physical abuse, if thats why she did it, as its Biblical, and Biblically wrong for him to treat her and their kids like that. Thats wrong and unnecessary.

  16. Tyler, wives need their husbands love and support (support obviously looking differently than a wife being a helpmeet). Pregnancy is not a prerequisite for that. This is abuse period. It’s definitely not a man cherishing his wife the way he protects his own body (as he drives home in his air-conditioned vehicle).

    He said she “talked back” to him. He didn’t elaborate on the details.

  17. AnnaMs,

    So to further clarify my position on this. I think there is huge difference between a controlled spanking on rear end of a child or a wife and engaging in bondage activities. I personally would be never be comfortable spanking my wife and personally I am not even comfortable spanking my teens. I only spanked them when they were children and I used other discipline methods when the became teens.

    In my mind there is a huge distinction between reasonable spanking and bondage. Bondage in my view is only appropriate in case of God or sometimes the government as a method of discipline or as punishment.

    I agree with you that we should strongly condemn husbands or fathers that lock their wives or children in closets or place them in various forms of bondage.

    And I agree with you about your anger over what happened with your friend when she was pregnant. If that happened to my daughter I would encourage separation and ultimately divorce if he did not change.

    I have another article I have been fighting with for almost a month based on an email from a woman about what her husband has her do. It deals with a different form of bondage than discussed here but I take the same position there on bondage as well. Hopefully I can finish my thoughts on it and get it out soon.

  18. @Anna I agree, and didn’t say there were prerequisites to a man loving his wife as himself. You just assumed that. And her talking back to him didn’t deserve that, at most it deserved just a verbal rebuke. The Bible shows discipline should be done in due measure, and what he did wasn’t due measure. It was outright abuse and too much.

  19. I think you did a great job on a difficult topic. I have a small difference of opinion, as you would gather from what you know about my situation. Jim does, at times keep me in bondage, not as a sexual thing, or as a punishment. Sometimes he literally chaisn my ankle (in my cute shoes! 🙂 ) to a kitchen cabinet because he desires it. (other examples are being chained to a bench in the back yard, or the back porch, or the master bathroom (excuse the pun).

    A lot of the time that leads to an amorous adventure in the kitchen. However, other times, I am left in the kitchen for some time period where I research recipes, take inventory for the next grocery list, prepare and freeze meals for next week. When he is done with talking on the phone or watching a movie, he comes in, sees what I have done, which THEN leads to an amorous session OR just simply to bed.

    I am giving you this detail to understand that bondage does not have to be harmful, or for punishment. It can merely reinforce our natural subservience to our husbands. It can just be a physical representation of our roles.

    Thank you again for your willingness to blog these tough issues.

    J

  20. “He says his “needs” aren’t being met and I’m sexually unavailable for him.” I disagree. His “wants” are not being met. I guess married Christians must satisfy sexual wants but needs are more important. If there is discipline, I don’t think it should be as severe for a spouse who deprives (defrauds) the wants but satisfies the needs.

    In my situation, I would be thankful to have my needs satisfied. That usually means a fight, but my prayer is for my needs to be satisfied and later I would like my “wants” to be satisfied.

  21. The submission of a Christian wife to her husband is a duty she owes to God and not directly to her husband, whether he professes to be a Christian or is an unbeliever.
    What she will tolerate from her husband, other than submission to natural, ninperverted sexual intercourae at appropriate periods, is up to her discretion. She has no duty to submit to abuse of her body (impregnating her is not abuse of her body unless she has a genuine medical reason not to become pregnant; reproduction is what a person as a female is for, and a principal reason she married). If the husband will not listen to her protests, and will not listen to the pastor of their church (assuming that he is not a perverted degenerate), she may turn him over to satan (the civil governing authorities) for further “instruction.”
    Not all discipline applied to a wife (or daughter, but this question has to do with wives) is unchristian, for women all to often are disrespectful, insubordinate and misbehaving. Sometimes when her hormones have her acting up, a firm hand applied to her bottom is needed when reason will not correct her attitude. The “world’s” way is to drug women: Librium®, Ritalin®, Trilafon®, Elavil®, Triavil®, lithium carbonate, Xanax®, psychologists, psychiatrists, other psychotropic methods. Isn’t the paddle preferable to brain-damaging chemicals? The Bible warns us against “pharmakeia” (phamaceuticals, called “sorcery”).
    Lovingly applied, not in anger but with an intent to correct, the paddle can be beneficial.
    My own mother was destroyed by psychiatrists and their accomplices, pharmacists. If my father had put her over his knee many years earlier her bitterness might have been “nipped in the bud.” Things surely would not have gone any worse than happened.

  22. AnnaMS,
    If a husband applies moderate corporal correction to his wife, it must be with her submission.
    He must not physically overpower her. If he determines that she requires a spanking or paddling, he calls her to him and she goes over his knees, bends over and accepts his instruction. If she refuses to obey him in this, he must not use main force on her. He should not want to make himself a tyrant in her sight, but a leader and instructor of his wife and family.
    Spankings and paddlings must not leave serious bruises or broken skin. Any marks should be gone in three or four days. He should rub soothing ointment into the paddled area, and if she isn’t on her period, make love to her.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s