Is it wrong for my Christian husband to make me wear a chastity belt?

chastity_belt

“What are your feelings about a husband placing a chastity belt on a wife to prevent masturbation or fondling?” This a question I received in an email from a woman named Mary.

As I told her in my emails to her this is the first time anyone has ever written me about this.  I knew what a chastity belt is but usually we think of this as some medieval device long since gone out of use.

There is a great debate amongst historians as to if chastity belts were ever actually used in ancient times or if they were simply urban myths meant to scare women into guarding their sexual purity.

But there was an actual incident this year where an Italian woman had to call the fire fighters to cut her out of her own chastity belt because she lost the keys:

“Chastity belts might sounds as though they belong in the Middle Ages, but this week an Italian woman was forced to enlist the help of local firefighters after she became stuck in her own iron number.

The middle-aged woman, who can’t be named for privacy reasons, had lost the keys to her belt and asked firefighters to help cut her out. They investigated whether she’d been forced into wearing it – but it turned out she’d had chosen to wear the belt to prevent herself from embarking on a sexual relationship.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/chastity-belts-the-odd-truth-about-locking-up-womens-genitalia/

So with all that being said as a background here is Mary’s full story and then I will respond.

Mary’s Story

“What are your feelings about a husband placing a chastity belt on a wife to prevent masturbation or fondling?  Does he have that authority?  He believes that if I self-gratify myself, that I am taking away from our mutual pleasure.  The device is a belt, from which a shield covers my private parts and is locked on…allowing for urination, but not for fingers.  So, it works, but I always worry someone will find out, which would be highly embarrassing.

And I am grateful he cares so much for our intimacy.  But, it does have that medieval bondage aspect to it.  As I already stand out in my manner of dress, I feel like it is just another distinction I have from my friends and fellow Christians.  Then, I wonder if there are other Christian wives out there who have to follow rules like me, and I will never know because of their secrecy.  Make sense?

I am sure the issue of consent will be raised by commenters.  I do consent (even though I cannot remove it, if I wanted) but the question is do I have to consent to such a request by husband as a Christian wife?”

An update from Mary

A couple weeks after Mary sent me the original email you see above she then sent me this update:

“I wanted to give you an update.  I have not been a fan of wearing the belt and shield, but I see the wisdom in it.  Since early July, Jim has had me wear it each day.  It is amazing to me how much I had been sinning by consciously or unconsciously gratifying myself.  Obviously, the belt prevents me from using my fingers or an object.

But, I found out that I had been sitting and leaning against things to evoke that same stimulus without realizing it—but the shield prevents that.  For example, when in the kitchen waiting on something to bake, I would stand on one leg and draping my other leg over a bar stool in the kitchen.  With the belt/shield on, I suddenly realized that I was, passively, doing this to give some light pleasure to myself.   Because, the belt/shield prevents this, I realized that I had formerly been doing this as a way of comfort, and that this posture made no other sense.

Make sense?

Our intimacy has been greatly increased when he unlocks the belt.  I still have mixed emotions about why I was so weak to necessitate him doing this.  However, I love that he jealously wants to protect our intimacy and relationship.”

I respond to Mary’s seeming acceptance of this practice of wearing a chastity belt asking her why she thought she had “been sinning by consciously or unconsciously gratifying myself.” This was her response:

“My thoughts were that gratifying myself can be wrong under the following circumstances:

  1. Hurts our spouse: Like you said, if I gratify myself often enough, then I do have much less sexual desire for my husband.  This did get to be a problem for us (not proud to admit it)

  2. Gratifying myself retrained my brain away from my husband: When I gratify myself, I have a couple or routine fantasies I dwell upon.  Well, those fantasies do not involve my husband, but other scenarios or people.  So, when I have sex with my husband, my body was not reacting to him like my body was reacting in my fantasies.  I guess I was training it to respond to a certain stimulus in my fantasy, and my husband is just not able to provide that same stimulus in real life.

  3. By dwelling on circumstances or people outside my marriage bed to feed my fantasies, would that not be considered mental adultery, and thus make it a sin?”

My Response to Mary and other Women who are forced to wear chastity belts

I think we really have two issues here.  The first is the issue of whether masturbation is Biblically right or wrong and the second is if chastity belts are an appropriate response to masturbation if in fact it is Biblically wrong.

Now what percentage of chastity belts are worn by women trying to guard themselves from sexual temptation and what percentage are from husbands who make their wives wear them? Who knows?  But in either case it is apparent there is some subculture no matter how small that is employing the use of these devices.

The first question we need to answer is about the morality of masturbation.

Is Masturbation wrong for a Christian?

This is a huge subject that could take a whole article by itself which is why I wrote an entire article dedicated to answering this question from a Biblical perspective entitled “Is Masturbation a sin” a while back.

The short answer is that masturbation is not a sin in and of itself and the Bible never condemns it.

Rather than repeat everything in the article I wrote on masturbation here I will just address the most popular argument that has been used to say God does not approve of masturbation.

“9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.  10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.”

Genesis 38:9-10 (KJV)

This story in Genesis 38 is about a man named Onan who was called upon to fulfill his duty to enter into levirate marriage with his sister-in-law after his brother had died and not left her a son to be an heir for his estate.  Instead of fulfilling his duty to give his dead brother’s wife an heir, he had sex with her and then pulled out at the end.

God did not kill Onan for masturbating.  God did not even kill Onan for pulling out.

Neither are sinful activities. Onan could have refused to take his brother’s wife as his wife. Yes it would have been a shame on him but this would not have been worthy of death.  What was worthy of death was the fact that he enjoyed his brother’s wife sexually “he went in unto his brother’s wife” but his intent was fraudulent and that is why he pulled out (“spilled it on the ground”).  This is the wickedness for which God killed Onan.

Can masturbation become sinful?

I have shown from the Bible that masturbation in and of itself is never condemned in the Scriptures.  However there are many things that are not sinful in and of themselves but they can become sinful if they become the central focus of our lives or if they cause us to sin by neglecting our duties.

For instance I play video games with my kids on Friday nights – that is family night for us.  There is no sin in playing video games during our fun time together on the weekend.  However if I were to play video games during the week to the neglect of my job or spending time with my wife and children in other ways it could become an obsession and sinful.

We need to eat.  There is no sin in us desiring food and eating on a daily basis.  However, if we live for food and constantly over-eat simply for the pleasure of eating we commit the sin of gluttony.

Masturbation is actually much closer to us eating food than to us playing video games.  There is no biological imperative to play a video game.  There is however a biological imperative to seek sexual release.

Some say masturbation, sexual thoughts and sexual intercourse are not needs but simply wants.  After all – no one ever died from not masturbating or not having sex right?

What these same people miss is that while not having sex will not kill an individual – it will however kill a marriage and lack of sex if done on a consistent level worldwide would kill off the human race.

So in the same way that we are compelled as individuals to eat so we will not die, we are also compelled as spouses and as a human race to have sex so as to build intimacy in our marriages an ultimately to preserve the human race.

But can masturbation become sinful? Absolutely.  If we do it too often to the neglect of our other responsibilities then it becomes a sin to the extent that we overdue it. If we come to the point where as a married people we would rather masturbate than have sex with our spouse then we need to look at how often we are masturbating.

But as I have often argued on this site in other places I believe that as Christians our sexual fantasies, the use of SOME types of porn (not all porn) and masturbation can in fact be used in positive ways to increase our desire for our spouse or help us to understand our bodies better.  Masturbation can also help teens, college students and other singles to stay sexually pure and not seek sexual relations outside of marriage. Masturbation can also make up for differences in sexual desire between spouses.

So up to this point we have established three very important truths.

Masturbation in and of itself is never condemned in the Bible.

Masturbation when done in moderation can have positive benefits.

Masturbation can become sinful if it is overdone causing the neglect of our other responsibilities and especially if it causes us to neglect our spouse sexually.

Mary’s case is a prime example of masturbation impeding a person’s sexual desire toward their spouse.  She admits here that her masturbation was interfering with her desire for her husband.  Mental fantasies, the use of porn and masturbation can all become wrong if those things decrease our desire for our spouse.

But how should Mary and her husband handle her masturbating too much? Is a chastity belt the right answer to this problem?

Is the use of chastity belts by Christians wrong?

I believe the use of chastity belts by Christian women whether the use is voluntary by the woman or compulsory by the husband is in fact wrong and sinful.

It is sinful for two reasons.

Chasity belts are wrong because they remove free will and place people in bondage

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

II Corinthians 3:17 (KJV)

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”

Galatians 5:1 (KJV)

Bondage is the complete opposite of freedom and a chastity belt is a form of bondage. God wants us to freely choose to do what is right. Bondage takes away that choice.

Now are there consequences for wrong choices with God? Yes!

God gave Adam a choice regarding the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2:16-17.

God gave the Israelites a choice in Deuteronomy 30:15-18 to serve him or disobey him and he told them what would happen based on their choice.

Christ presents us with a choice to believe in him or not we are told the consequences of that decision in John 3:18 as well as many other New Testament passages.

There are few and rare times where the Bible allows for bondage or slavery.  In the case of prisoners who have committed crimes or in war captives may be taken.  If a person was born a slave, or sold themselves as a slave in order to pay their debts this would be allowed. Parents could sell their children as slaves and often times this was to bring their families out of poverty.

But nowhere does the Bible say that husbands can treat their wives as prisoners which is in essence what this practice of a man forcing his wife to wear a chastity devise does.

The practice of using chastity belts is a harsh and cruel treatment of the body

Here are several passages of Scripture which forbid us from being cruel to or harshly treating our bodies:

“Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”

Leviticus 19:28 (KJV)

“For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church”

Ephesians 5:29 (KJV)

“20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.”

Colossians 2:20-23 (NASB)

What Mary and her husband are doing with her wearing a chastity is direct violation of Colossians 2:20-23.  It is textbook “self-abasement and severe treatment of the body”.

What should Mary do?

I have shown here why I believe Mary’s practice of wearing a chastity belt is wrong whether she does it by choice or is compelled by her husband to do so. Mary is not to submit herself this type of bondage and cruel treatment toward her body.

But Mary does have a problem with masturbating too much and allow her fantasies to get out of hand to the point that she cannot have good normal relations with her husband.

Instead of placing herself in bondage – Mary needs to exercise self-control and discipline.  She needs to choose do the right thing without having a chastity device to compel her choice.

“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”

I Corinthians 6:12 (KJV)

Photo Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fomfr_chastity_belt.jpg

33 thoughts on “Is it wrong for my Christian husband to make me wear a chastity belt?

  1. not only that but with Mary being a female, wearing that belt can not be healthy. The vagina is self cleaning and needs air. Wearing a chasity belt is gonna cause some issues. Females need to learn more about their reproductive systems because I have read too many stories about women because of the lack of knowledge of their bodies find themselves with serious problems and that is not healthy at all.

  2. Once again a superbly written post 😊
    There is nothing I can add to it as it expresses my views on this topic perfectly
    It also exposes how deeply ingrained is the insane taboo against masturbation in our culture
    We are literally condemning something that has got NO scriptural support whatsoever and making masturbation a sin when it’s not and never has been
    Anyway I think this husband has got serious issues which he needs to face in order to get a healthy relationship with his wife back again and insisting his wife use a chastity device is not only cruel but sinful as well
    If he’s so afraid of his wife self pleasuring for goodness sake then he needs to get down and dirty with her a lot more! Her wishing to self pleasure was never the issue here as there’s nothing wrong with that. ..the issue is HIS desire to control it
    Sometimes I despair that the “church” will ever come out of the dark ages in its anti sexual hostility to sex and all forms of pleasure

  3. 1. The argument is essentially: A chastity belt violates free will. Should a husband take away a wife’s credit cards if she is irresponsibly using them? Taking them away would be violating her free will to make right or wrong choices. Can a husband limit TV time? Yes. Phone time? Yes. The fact of the matter is that “limiting free will” is not a good indicator of whether something is sinful or not. This is more readily seen in the case of children.. It can be an important teaching lesson an authority can use to teach actions and consequences. An authority has the rightful ability to create moral obligations and impose limits on what those underneath it can do. God created the Law was created for Law Breakers after all.

    2. The duty of a husband is to lead his wife to be able to help her to become more like Christ. I personally wouldn’t take this approach, but by all accounts the husband’s intention and result has allowed them to grow in intimacy in their marriage. The bondage that the Scripture is referring to is the bondage of sin. Her husband has helped her overcome the bondage of her own sin (decreased sexual intimacy and fantasies of others).

    There’s no problem here other than it “appears wrong” just like eating food sacrificed to idols appears wrong. Paul demolished that argument (1 Cor 8). In Paul’s case, he would refrain from eating food sacrificed to idols so that no one would stumble; in the case of this husband and wife no one even knows about it until she told other people.

    3. Maturity: the goal in this circumstance, in my opinion at least, should be that the husband wean his wife off the chastity belt, with both of them taking care that she does not relapse into sin. The goal is maturity and grow in Christ that she can make the decision of her own free will. What decision? Choosing intimacy with her husband over self gratification and fantasies of others.

    4. The other issue I’ve seen is namely female writers asking questions to other men about what is permissible and not. This is the same issues that I’ve been commenting on with women’s “TItus 2 blogs” as well. Women write in specifically to “other men” or “other women” so they can find a reason to disobey their husbands. This is not a good thing.

  4. “The device is a belt, from which a shield covers my private parts and is locked on…allowing for urination, but not for fingers”

    – so the belt allows her to pee, but can she wipe herself? also what about her menstrual cycle? im pretty sure she can wear a pad with that thing and a tampon needs to be changed or it will cause health issues.

    ” I do consent (even though I cannot remove it, if I wanted) ”

    – she consents but that fact she can not removed if there was a reason too is a problem (health related)

    “For example, when in the kitchen waiting on something to bake, I would stand on one leg and draping my other leg over a bar stool in the kitchen. With the belt/shield on, I suddenly realized that I was, passively, doing this to give some light pleasure to myself.”

    – her giving the example of that posture that she subconsciously does it, mostly likely is true or it just could just be the way she stands in her kitchen while waiting. if i am in land or waiting, i normally stand in second position which makes people asked me how long i’ve been in ballet; however i never did ballet – i have also stood like that since i was a little girl. Also depending on what she wears would depend the amount of friction needed for her to pleasure herself with a bar stool. If she was wearing pants like jeans – theres no way for her to pleasure herself. If she is wearing a dress-maybe, a skirt -it depends on what type of skirt.

  5. the husband could have used another way to help his wife to control her masturbation. If the husband has issue controlling his masturbation, would have it been okay if the wife suggest that he wear a chasity belt? (there is one for males too)

    If she have fantasized her about her husband, instead of other men -then her attraction would not have dwindled.

    The chasity belt does not allow the wife any way to control her own problem, the husband is. At some point she needs to handle the fact that she needs to lessen her masturbation. If he takes it off for good and then she falls right back into the habit then what? is he just gonna put it on her again? its like a person who is addict to drugs constantly going to rehab, gets clean only to leave and get right back on the substance – the addict can not be forced to changed. God gave us free will for a reason, he can not force us to follow him; that is a decision we as mankind must make for ourselves.

  6. As to masturbation not being a sin in and of itself, it could possibly be for both a man and woman in marriage it, as it is implied neither are supposed to get their sexual pleasure and fulfillment from anyone but each other. In Exodus 21:10-11 God forbade a man to diminish his wife’s sexual relations, implying she is supposed to be getting that pleasure from him, and even more directly in Proverbs 5:19 is a man forbidden to masturbate for his sexual pleasure and fulfillment, as that verse commands that he let his wife’s breasts satisfy at ALL times, and that he be ALWAYS ravished with her love. The issue is admittedly less clear for a woman, but for a man couldn’t be clearer. A married man’s sexual comfort, pleasure, fulfillment is to come from his wife(or a wife if hes polygynous), and nothing else. At ALL times it says. You claimed a chasity belt is cruel treatment and implied it to be harmful, yet presented no evidence supporting that. How is it cruel and harmful to a woman’s body, and what if the reason a woman wear it is so protect against rape and such, another possible reason for wearing it no addressed here? And the yoke of bondage often mentioned in Scriptures is sin’s bondage, not really use of devices like the chasity belt, which can be punishment for sinful behavior(true sinful behavior) or protection from harm or abuse(such as rape in the chasity belts case).

  7. Deep Strength,

    Your Statement:

    “1. The argument is essentially: A chastity belt violates free will. Should a husband take away a wife’s credit cards if she is irresponsibly using them? Taking them away would be violating her free will to make right or wrong choices. Can a husband limit TV time? Yes. Phone time? Yes. The fact of the matter is that “limiting free will” is not a good indicator of whether something is sinful or not. This is more readily seen in the case of children.. It can be an important teaching lesson an authority can use to teach actions and consequences.”

    You know from my writings on this blog that I am all for husbands disciplining their wives. The husband tells his wife what to do in a particular area and the wife has a choice – obey or disobey. If she disobeys there is a consequence. I have no problem with that general principle.

    But this does not mean that husbands cannot go too far. There is no comparison between a husband taking his wife’s credit card or limiting TV time or phone time and husband placing his wife in chains which is a much more accurate comparison. Imagine a man putting his wife in ankle chains and chaining her to where she could only walk from the bedroom to the kitchen for some infraction she made? This is the height of cruelty.

    We as Christians are not to place others in bondage outside a very narrow reasons God allows. A wife masturbating too much does not justify a husband putting his wife in chains. There are other more humane and godly ways to handle this type of situation.

  8. @Tyler,

    I think Sapphire laid out what could be physically harmful about chastity belts. It doesn’t sound like a sanitary or healthy environment for the urethra and vagina, especially during menstruation but also from day to day if a woman ends up sweating in it and can’t properly clean herself after urinating. I can see it causing yeast infections and UTIs at the very least.

    As for masturbation, do you think that married couples can use it to increase their desire for one another by fantasizing about their spouse while he or she is away or unavailable? (Say, the husband had to go on a business trip or to do mission work. The wife needed to go visit family or was going to a conference that she and her husband thought would help her spiritually. The husband just had surgery or the wife just gave birth.) Husbands and wives could also use masturbation to better understand what pleases them sexually so that they can help their spouses better pleasure them during sex. Plus, fantasizing about one’s spouse definitely increases desire. In Mary’s case, I think that she could learn to focus her fantasies on her husband so that she responds to him better. She could even incorporate him into her existing fantasies if they lend themselves to that.

  9. Tyler,

    Your Statement:

    “As to masturbation not being a sin in and of itself, it could possibly be for both a man and woman in marriage it, as it is implied neither are supposed to get their sexual pleasure and fulfillment from anyone but each other.”

    Tyler – the Scriptures show that a man and woman may only have sexual relations with their spouse.

    “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”

    Hebrews 13:4 (KJV)

    However masturbation is not sexual relations. Sexual relations require two living beings interacting with one another sexually. There is no Scripture which implies a person cannot experience or enjoy sexual pleasure by themselves.

    Your Statement:

    “In Exodus 21:10-11 God forbade a man to diminish his wife’s sexual relations, implying she is supposed to be getting that pleasure from him, and even more directly in Proverbs 5:19 is a man forbidden to masturbate for his sexual pleasure and fulfillment, as that verse commands that he let his wife’s breasts satisfy at ALL times, and that he be ALWAYS ravished with her love.”

    None of the passages you cite imply that all sexual pleasure one experiences must be derived from one’s spouse. What they prove is that spouses are to make themselves sexually available to one another. So yes I agree that if a married man or woman is masturbating too much, or would rather masturbating than have sex with their spouse then masturbation becomes a problem. But it is the over use of, or the overindulgence of masturbation that is sin – not masturbation itself.

    You are stretching “ALL times” brother. The context of that passage is that a man should not be running after whores and other men’s wives. Also if he was polygamous as men were allowed by God to be there would be many times a man was taken with a single woman not his wife and then he may pursue her later. Would he be wrong in taking pleasure of thoughts about this potentially new wife he would like to take? Of course not

    The “all times” phrase is not meant as a prison for men in regard to the sexual pleasure from their wives. I know many Christian wives who would love your abuse of that phrase because they want 100% of their husband’s attraction and attention. They cannot stand to think that he may think of, or take pleasure from the sight of any other woman but them. I will be addressing this issue in an upcoming article on jealousy.

    What “all times” means is – a WIFE is to make herself available to sexually satisfy her husband at ALL times. It does not imprison the husband to only enjoy the thought of his wife sexually, otherwise it would preclude men from seeking other wives which God clearly allowed.

  10. @ BGR

    There are probably “better” ways to handle this, but we didn’t really get much background on the situation either. Did the husband exhaust all other options of Scripture, reasoning, counseling, and other factors? Then perhaps something that seems more ‘unreasonable’ might be an option.

    I also think that we are too quick to condemn things that offend our “sensibilities” as sinful. Jesus making a whip and driving out moneychangers and flipping would to most of us be sinful. The heart and intention of the husband was to remove sin from his wife’s life, even by an ‘extreme’ method, and it worked. I doesn’t appear his wife would’ve agreed to it if she thought he was deliberately trying to harm her.

    I also agree that what worked for one husband may not work for another.

  11. Wrong BGR, they do, as Proverbs 5:19 expressly says that a wife is to let his wife breasts SATISFY him at ALL times, and that he is to be ALWAYS ravished with her love. For him to sexually gratify and fulfill himself, rather than get that from her would be to disobey the expressly given command of God that he let his wife SATISFY him at ALL times, as he is then not getting from her, hes satisfying himself.

  12. Typos happen in the last one, as my keyboard sometimes doesn’t type in words. It was supposed to say “That a man is to let his wife’s breasts SATISFY him at all times. ” I hate when my keyboard does that.

  13. Great post BGR. It very much reminds me of Islam… the whole chains and using physical guarding of her chastity. They take it even further obviously to include female genital mutilation… so that they can’t feel pleasure down there at all. Keeping her from innocently feeling pleasure by even absentmindedly leaning up against something reminds me a lot of the way Muslim men think about feminine sexuality. Basically, that it’s wrong and needs to be forcibly controlled. They don’t believe women *can* control their sexuality, and her husband is acting in the same way.

    There are much better ways for women to learn self control and discipline like you stated at the end of your post. Even God allows us to choice to follow and reap the benefits or not. She’ll have much more spiritual growth in this area if she’s allowed to decide for herself.

    And you’re right about her having issues with using masturbation too much so that it interferes with her desire for her husband. I’ve read and heard from multiple women that it’s actually a common thing now – that women really are probably masturbating too much so that they’re making it hard to prefer sex with their husbands when they first get married. From what I’ve seen them say… it’s so much easier for them to achieve orgasm through them masturbating themselves, so this becomes an issue when they find they can’t orgasm (sometimes for years) when they do finally have sex with their husband. They really have trained their bodies to respond solely through masturbation in order to achieve orgasm.

    There’s a whole process you have to take these women through that involves them helping teach their husbands how to actually masturbate them, learning to like him doing that (believe it or not a lot of these young women don’t like that he’s doing that, or feel extremely embarrassed with their husband doing it to them). Once they’ve broken through that barrier of being able to actually orgasm with *him* masturbating her, a whole new world opens up for their sexual pleasures and it’s like she’s been freed from a weird mentality.

  14. Great post, BGR. Good to have you back! I used to think that solo masturbation (not one spouse masturbating the other) was a sin. Not entirely convinced of that now (although it’s not something that would enhance our marriage so I guess I really don’t have a dog in that fight). I do think it might be overly dramatic to call men containing themselves to their spouse being in a ‘prison’ though. If both people are working hard at their sexual relationship, it’s really not that bad. 🙂

    Spousal abuse and legitimate husband authority were not meant to come into clash. So if someone is defending spousal abuse because the man is boss, that might be a hint that they’re on the wrong track. I’m glad that you’re tackling these subjects, but looking through some of your previous posts (men treating their wives like Islamic women, BDSM and the ensuing bondage conversation, and now this), I can’t help but wonder if these men might want to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they were a woman, if they would want to be married to him. If a man wouldn’t want to wear a chastity belt, find himself chained in a closet, etc. he might not want to do that to his wife. Golden rule and all.

  15. @Stephanie,

    Wow! I didn’t realize that so many women were having a problem like that. I wonder if it’s partly an issue with mindset? I’ve always thought that touching myself was a good way to help my husband figure out new ways to please me, so I’ve never had an issue with masturbation decreasing my desire for him or my ability to orgasm with him. (If anything, it helps.) Although I do understand how anyone, male or female, could get so used to climaxing from their own self-stimulation that they find it difficult or even impossible to climax with their partner unless their partner can recreate those exact movements. At that point, decreasing the amount that you masturbate and accepting that orgasms are generally going to happen differently (and ultimately better, IMO) with your husband might be the only helpful course of action.

  16. Adding on: I also wonder if some women end up being uncomfortable with letting their husbands stimulate them to orgasm because they’re uncomfortable with their own sexuality and only feel secure experiencing it in private?

  17. Alex “I’ve always thought that touching myself was a good way to help my husband figure out new ways to please me, so I’ve never had an issue with masturbation decreasing my desire for him or my ability to orgasm with him. (If anything, it helps.) ”

    Me too! I was shocked too. I think masturbating for a woman is actually a **good** thing – especially a Chrsitian girl who won’t have prior sexual experience… it IS her sexual experience of understanding her body so that she actually WILL enjoy it more for her first time in marriage. That’s how it worked out for me… masturbation didn’t hinder it. But I’ve heard from quite a few women and read in Christian sex books that this has become somewhat of an issue.

  18. Tyler Bryant

    Your reasoning is not only illogical it’s stupid
    That passage in proverbs 5 is contrasting how a man’s wife’s breasts is meant to satisfy him at all times as opposed to ANOTHER man’s wife. …the emphasis is on WHO is meant to satisfy him not the “all times” part of the passage
    Using proverbs 5 as a verse against masturbation is not only unwarranted but illogical in the extreme

  19. @Stephanie, I just had to point out an inaccuracy in some of your statements. I sense that there’s a general dislike of the Islamic religion here, but Islam is not the reason for Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and muslims are definitely not even the majority of people who practice it.

    http://www.unfpa.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-frequently-asked-questions

    “The origins of the practice are unclear. It predates the rise of Christianity and Islam. It is said some Egyptian mummies display characteristics of FGM. Historians such as Herodotus claim that, in the fifth century BC, the Phoenicians, the Hittites and the Ethiopians practiced circumcision. It is also reported that circumcision rites were practiced in tropical zones of Africa, in the Philippines, by certain tribes in the Upper Amazon, by women of the Arunta tribe in Australia, and by certain early Romans and Arabs. As recent as the 1950s, clitoridectomy was practiced in Western Europe and the United States to treat perceived ailments including hysteria, epilepsy, mental disorders, masturbation, nymphomania and melancholia. In other words, the practice of FGM has been followed by many different peoples and societies across the ages and continents.”

    I don’t know what muslim men or women you’ve been talking to, and I’m willing to bet that you haven’t spoken to any regarding their preferences for their females’ sexual pleasure, but even though a lot of the women wear hijabs for public modesty, there is no evidence supporting that they don’t want their women to experience sexual pleasure when they’re in private. In fact, from the muslim blogs, my perception from visiting some of these countries and from some of my muslim female friends, their sex life and pleasure with their husbands is very hot hot. Their men think a lot like all sane men do and want their wives to be very in touch with their sexuality and experience sexual pleasure with them.

    Let’s not throw an entire religion and group of people under the bus and state factual inaccuracies because we’re caught up in a heated argument.

  20. Wrong, its perfectly in sync, as not only is it saying for a man to avoid sexual immorality, its saying a man is to seek sexual comfort, pleasure, and fulfillment from his wife(or a wife) only, and not from anyone or anything else, including masturbation. For unmarried people, its perfectly unsinful, nut not for a married man it isn’t.

  21. Tyler Bryant

    I actually find it despicable that you take verse 19 out of context WITHOUT reading verse 20
    (Proverbs 5:20 KJV) And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?……this emphatically shows that the breasts a man is to enjoy shouldn’t be ANOTHER MAN’S WIFE. ….Nowhere is it implied in these passages that his wife is the be all end all for all time immorial and that even a glance at the beauty of another woman walking down the road is sinful

    I find those who take verses out of context like you just did ALWAYS have some agenda and an ax to grind…..in this case it’s your rabidly anti-sexual hatred of masturbation and all things that bring a man pleasure
    Please pray tell which of Davids 7 wives was he meant to derive sexual pleasure from? And if King David got aroused by wife number 4 does that mean wife number 6 was being deprived?
    This goes for ALL the godly patriarchs who had multiple wives and NO SIN was charged to their souls by God Almighty Himself……If God didn’t have a problem with it why are you making such a big deal of it?

    The ridiculousness of your position can be seen when you substitute the word “cooking” and “foods” for the words breasts in these 2 verses….does that mean a man can’t enjoy his sister cooking him some food? Is the only cooking a man allowed is his wife’s food? Yup utterly ridiculous

  22. shredifier,

    I saw Tyler’s comment earlier and was going to come back on here later and make the exact point that you are making. Context, context context. Not only must you take a passage in context of the chapter and book it is in, but also you must weigh it against the entire witness of Scripture. You made a great point – if a man was forbidden from gleaning any sexual pleasure from any other source other than his wife, then what do you do with the fact that he may have had four wives and then he found another single woman attractive that he wanted to marry as a fifth wife? Is it wrong for him to take sexual pleasure from imagining what it would be like to be with that woman before he can marry her?

    Tyler has done exactly what most anti-masturbation folks do – any place he can he inserts “no masturbation”. It is like the folks who in every place the Bible talks about filthiness they insert what they consider to be filthy like masturbation or erotic materials even though the Bible never calls these things filthy – they just throw it in there.

    But as I said you made the exact point I wanted to – the context is a man not going after another man’s wife not that every bit of sexual pleasure he experiences after he says “I do” must come from his wife.

  23. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “I do think it might be overly dramatic to call men containing themselves to their spouse being in a ‘prison’ though. If both people are working hard at their sexual relationship, it’s really not that bad.”

    I stand by my use of the word “prison” because prison represents confinement and lack of freedom and I actually used that word when speaking to a group of family members on this topic recently.

    As I have said 1000 times on this blog – one of the key characteristics of male sexuality which is very different than female sexuality is man’s polygamous nature and his desire for a variety of women where women for the most part are naturally monogamous by design. I realize there are Christians who believe this is a part of the fall and that in the beginning men were meant to have monogamous natures just like women. I also realize as we have discussed on multiple occasions that in our modern world because of our laws and how our economy works it is difficult if not impossible for the vast majority of men to actually put polygamy into practice even if they believe it was actually part of God’s original design of man as I see in the Scriptures.

    But while men for the most part must confine themselves physically in marriage to one wife today, I think it is going too far to tell men that even in their thoughts or their arousal or even in masturbation they are restricted to thoughts of one woman and one woman alone to derive all their mental and physical sexual pleasure. That is a bridge too far and in my opinion is cruel especially to men with higher sex drives.

  24. biblicalgenderroles

    Wow! someone agreed with me lol 😁
    Unfortunately those who are committed to the anti masturbation brigade and who take verses out of context like Tyler and who insert the word masturbation everywhere the bible mentions “filthiness” are so blinded by sexual guilt of their own sexuality that they probably can’t change
    These people are the same crowd who believes that if a man or woman remarries they are living in a perpetual state of adultery and will die in their sins unless they divorce their second spouse and go back to the first lol 😁
    I know ALL their arguments and ALL their scriptures they twist to support their position but unfortunately they are intractable in their misguided beliefs
    Thank God for the liberty we have in Christ!
    If it appears I’m overly harsh on Tyler and others like them i do apologize but I’ve seen the damage they have done to the body of Christ
    A clear case is seen here where a husband is so paranoid about his wife experiencing self pleasure that he seeks to put her under bondage and control her innate sexuality

    Anyway back to the topic at hand, I appreciate very much your support and our unity and like mindedness on these subjects
    God bless 😊

  25. @shredifier Sorry, the word “all” is absolute, and all-encompassing, and with the context means a man seek’s sexual comfort, pleasure, and fulfillment from his wife(or a wife if hes polygynous) and nothing and no one else, moron. Argue with me further, and I’ll ignore you.

  26. BGR, if that’s what you mean by ‘prison’ than I see your point. I guess technically that would mean I’m also in a prison (non-sexual of course) since I’m confined to being with my baby every 2-3 hours during the day (I work nights on purpose) and I can’t just hit the road, etc. I just think it doesn’t do anybody any good to refer to my life that way. It certainly would not be a blessing to my husband.

    You are right that men and women will normally experience this differently since men tend to have higher sex drives. I actually made my original comment from my husband’s perspective. He’s stopped porn, doesn’t masturbate, and only has sex with me. I don’t think he’d consider himself to be in a prison. Although he might if I suddenly started denying him.

    I pretty much entirely agree with you here though when it comes to the original topic. Hope your new job is going well!

  27. @DS – I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

    I once had my arm bound so that I could not use it, I was in bondage! I was also injured and the doctor immobilized my arm so that my shoulder could heal. My shoulder could not have healed as well if it were in bondage. The point is that we often err when we make ethical generalizations. In some situations and for some people a moral or physical restraint is useful for a time to facilitate repentance and sanctification.

    IMO- it sounds as if this woman was in bondage to a habit that affected her and her husband, other means were previously attempted and there was a bit of hard heart.

    A former teacher of mine and professor of Biblical ethics, John Frame, taught that Biblical ethics is applying God’s Word to people in situations. Change the situation or even the people and the application of God’s law might be different, One example to illustrate: the law of God forbids laboring on the Sabbath, but put an Ox in the ditch and the rescue labor is needful, or heal a man of blindness and the application of the law changes. Jesus was condemned for pick a few heads of grain and making mud to heal on the Sabbath by those who did not understand law and could not apply it lawfully. (1 Tim 1:8)

    To say that a chastity belt should be normative is IMO error and frankly outrageous, (I think that is BGR’s main point), but so also is it error to say there are no situations where it might be good and proper. I think the circumstances would have to be extreme and the heart of the person resistant to other remedies, but as in the case of this letter such people and circumstances apparently do exist.

  28. Jonadab, there is a huge difference between using a cast/sling/splint for a broken bone, and chaining up one’s spouse. I know you’re smart enough to see that so I’m not going to elaborate too much on that other than to say that I’ve been in a wrist splint, an arm sling, and a back brace (which was EXTREMELY immobilizing) and want no part of a chastity belt. With my epidural during labor, i wasn’t able to get out of bed for over 12 hours and there’s just no comparison.

    It sounds like you’re recommending this bondage as a disciplinary measure which is quite frankly repugnant. Would you want to be treated that way?

  29. Tyler Bryant

    Please refrain from name calling ☺
    Let’s discuss this topic as adults, thank you
    Having looked at various verses where the exact phrase “at all times” occurs it can be seen from the context that it’s NOT used in an exclusive sense
    For e.g by substituting the words breast for cooking in the context of AT ALL TIMES does that mean I am to enjoy my wife’s cooking? Absolutely! Am I allowed to enjoy someone else’s cooking though without violating the “at all times”? which I share with my wife? The question of course is retarded, of course I can eat a lovely roast cooked by someone else and STILL BE SATISFIED WITH MY WIFE’S COOKING
    What you have done by violating the context in which verse 19 occurs and by extending the phrase at all times to mean EXCLUSIVELY, you have destroyed the integrity of the scriptures and made an utterly irrational conclusion that doesn’t hold up in real world situations
    But go right ahead, be my guest, live your life with blinkers on so as to avoid even gazing at another woman by mistake, do not go out in public EVERYONE for the afore mentioned reason, get rid of your t.v, tablet, mobile ph, the Internet, movies etc, anything that might expose you to another woman not your wife in case God forbid you are aroused by her beauty…..remember to never leave your home, do not have a female boss or Co workers and definitely make sure you don’t go to the beach! Always have your eyes cast to the ground etc etc…..let me know how this works out for you
    I’m out, PEACE ✌

  30. AnnaMS,

    First off – it is nice to be back 🙂
    Secondly – The new job is going well after a rough start the first couple weeks(the person I replaced just quit and left absolutely no documentation so I had to figure out where everything was) 😦

    And now back to our “prison” discussion. I have heard some young female relatives of mine that have babies and toddlers make such a description about feeling like they are “imprisoned” and never being able to get away from a crying baby. I can understand that. I have worked from home on and off for many years so I was there first hand to see my ex-wife’s frustration sometimes when our children were infants and toddlers and again it is completely understandable. It is HARD WORK being a mom to an an infant or toddler.

    But having said how I understand the frustration, and the need for mom to just get some fresh air like when my ex-wife would sometimes hand me a baby at the end of the day and go to the grocery store, that is not the kind of “prison” I am describing.

    I am not even sure if that situation is accurate to be called a prison. If you are playing the role God has called you to play, yes it may get frustrating at times but I don’t think we should call these things prisons. For instance a man could say he feels like he is in prison having to go to work every day, or he feels like he is in prison because he has to come home and be a husband and father and he would rather be out with his friends and if a man described such a scenario to me as prison and I would tell him his attitude is completely wrong.

    To me putting a person in “prison”(whether physically, or mentally) would be more accurately described in these ways:

    1. A person is justifiably incarcerated for a crime or captured as a prisoner of war.
    2. A child is grounded and must stay in their room for a length of time or cannot leave the house to go with their friends because of something they have done wrong.
    3. A person may not be physically incarcerated in anyway, but their God given freedoms have been infringed upon whether it is freedom of action or freedom of thought.

    This third area of “imprisonment” is the one I am particularly talking about when I said to family members the other day that our society puts men in prisons. These are not physical prisons, but more mental prisons.

    I am not necessarily saying that just because in our culture men are typically confined to having one wife that this puts men in prisons although as you pointed out I see how a man could feel like he was imprisoned if he was having to live with a wife that constantly denied him sex and he had no alternatives.

    However, I was primarily dealing with the mental aspect here. I think most men can find a way to fully exercise their masculine polygamous nature even with just one wife but this is primarily done through the use of sexual fantasy.

    My mother understands this about my father. They are both in their early sixties and despite him having surgery for prostate cancer some years back they still try to have a very active sex life(even though it is a lot more work for both of them). My mother is a godly Christian woman and knows the Bible well. She does not agree with my position on porn at all and we just agree to disagree.

    However, my mom does accept the polygamous nature of men and in particular my father. We were having a family discussion with many couples(husbands and wives) and the subject of “how would you feel if you knew your husband was thinking about some other woman while having sex with you” came up.

    My mother’s answer shocked me. While she is adamantly against men viewing porn – she said she knows that sometimes when her and my father are watching a certain movie or television show that my Dad has a thing for one of the female actresses on that show. He will ask to go to bed shortly there after and she knows who my father was thinking about when they were doing something. She said “It does not bother me in the least, he is a man and that is how God made him.” She admitted that sometimes she teases him about it like “I know who you were thinking about” and they both just smile but there is no problem at all. I really admired my mother’s maturity, respect and understanding of my father’s polygamous nature.

    So I say all this to say that when wives insist that all of their husband’s sexual thoughts are directed at her alone, and all his sexual pleasure from her alone(whether from thinking of her or him not being allowed to masturbate on his own) they have are in fact wrongfully and unjustly imprisoning their husbands in this way.

    No Christian man should stand for it.

    Even on the issue of thoughts I have said before that our thoughts are between us and God and he is the only one who can hold us accountable for them. Husbands cannot hold their wives responsible for their thoughts and neither can wives hold their husbands responsible for their thoughts. There is a reason that God did not give us mind reading and mind control abilities.

  31. BGR, that sounds like a mess at work. Glad to hear it’s starting to smooth out!

    I think I misunderstood you because I thought you were saying that men were in a prison if they were only engaging in actual sexual physical (not mental) activity with their one wife, but that doesn’t sound like your opinion after all. I really wasn’t trying to imply that I feel like I live in a prison. I’m very happy to spend time with my baby. I’ve waited a relatively small time to become a mom compared to most American women, but it’s still something I’ve been wanting for as long as I can remember. Yeah it gets tiring, but it’s not a prison. 🙂

    As to sexual fantasies and thoughts, as you said it’s ultimately not the other spouse’s job to attempt to police the other’s thoughts. Regardless of whether people think sexually fantasizing about others is okay (and obviously we disagree on this), It’s just not possible and it’s only going to create friction. I know I would be hurt if I knew my husband was having sex with me when I was the farthest thing from his mind, but even then it wouldn’t be my job to police him.

  32. A common error that I see in this thread and on other sites (purporting to be) Christian is asserting that because a behavior is addressed by a general term or an euphemism instead of a precise name or graphic description that it is OK with God.
    Sexual acts and behaviors are never addressed by their precise names or by a graphic description. They are addressed by euphemisms such as “knew,” “uncovered nakedness” (`ervâh: nudity, genitals), “go in unto,” and by general terms such as “uncleanness” (akatharsia), “wantonness,” “lasciviousness,” “filthy” (asēlgēia), “fornication” (porneia: immoral practices common among prostitutes and other licentious women).
    The only sex-related act graphically described is that of Onan (and, according to Jewish scholars, Er), when he was struck dead directly by the “hand” of God.
    Paul counseled marriage for those who had difficulty containing their sexual urges. While the “fornication” (porneia) they were beset with could have been anything from extramarital sexual intercourse to voyeurism (Corinth was notorious for open, public sex acts by prostitutes), the sexual vice most commonly indulged in by unmarried persons is…what? How would marriage be useful in quelling this behavior? He goes on to command husbands and wives to attend to one another’s sexual desires, not to refuse one another except by mutual agreement, and that for only a short time. What is he referring to here? What do married persons whose spouses refuse sex with tend to do? Rush out to a prostitute? Divorce? I don’t think he was immediately concerned with those responses.

    On the topic of this thread:
    A chastity belt might be useful if the problem she is having is masturbating while asleep, but chastity has to be of the heart, or at least fear of God’s displeasure, to begin with. Physical restraints are inappropriate on sentient persons unless the affected person chooses to use a mechanical aid.
    A chastity belt worn to prevent sleep masturbation would not affect autonomic arousal and orgasm (“nocturnal emissions” of males and their equivalent of females).
    Most women’s underwear is tight in the crotch, putting pressure on the genitals. This can be a source of stimulation easily avoided by wearing loose underwear that doesn’t touch the affected organs. Men who have a difficulty with sensitivity can have a problem with finding trousers that are loose enough.

    Authority without power to enforce it against insubordination (disrespect, disobedience) is hollow, only a moral appeal to the insubordinate child or wife. Physical “instruction” should not be the first method resorted to, and in our corrupt, effeminized society a truly rebellious wife can have her husband dragged out of their home in chains in mere minutes just on her word without any evidence or explanation. So men have to keep that in mind. For a man to spank or paddle his wife for disobedience, smartmouthing him, laziness, he’d better have her voluntary cooperation.

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