This article has been updated and moved to my new site dedicated to discussing politics from a Biblical perspective. You can find the updated version here.
This article has been updated and moved to my new site dedicated to discussing politics from a Biblical perspective. You can find the updated version here.
24 thoughts on “Is Self-Segregation a Sin in the Bible?”
the reason why caucasians saying their are pride of being white is because white is not a race, its your skin color. French, german,polish,irish pride makes more sense because that is where your ancestors come from. As for blacks, we say black pride etc is because we dont know which tribe from Africa that we come. Our entire cultural identity was stripped from our ancestors during slavery. Majority of that were born in America speak english even though that is not the language of our ancestors or taken the names of those that own us. We are a lost people cultural and so developed a new identity, african-american, new forms of dances, fashion, language etc. So that is the difference
The topic of racism is a complicated one where, as usual, the world defines the word, and then goes on to define what is and isn’t racism, etc. Differing groups then go on to continuously change the meaning and what qualifies as or not as racism and then go on to label other groups racist or not. It isn’t a process based on God’s justice or right and wrong, but a process based on human selfishness, power, and control. Is reverse racism racism? Is affirmative action racism? Always note that with the world (and the enemy) that everything gets confusing quickly.
Usually to get the bottom of an issue, we need to leave the world’s word behind and explore what the bible says specifically in the words it chooses. Hatred is the word that is relevant here. Hatred of a person is the sin that needs to be confronted. Rule 2 is to love your neighbor as yourself. The truth is that Rule 2 is much easier to follow when you are following Rule 1 which is to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
bgr, your thoughts in the article seem to propose that simply wanting to live with and be with your own kind is not hatred, and I don’t disagree with that. I do think people tend to self segregate so I don’t think that in and of itself is a smoking gun to be pointed at as hatred or racism. But, we need to be careful, for sin comes quickly to the human heart and what might begin in comfort or choices based on such has the quick propensity to turn into hatred for what is less comfortable or common to us. That is where adherence and obedience to Jesus and the Holy Spirit are what we need to keep us on His path.
I think the answer is to put His ways above our ways. Look with eyes that see spiritually. When I see people, I want to see a brother or sister in Christ or I want to see someone who is badly in need of Jesus in their life.
I totally agree with u that our sin nature can easily turn our love for our kindred according to the flesh, our kind, our race, our ethnicity into hatred for those who are not our kindred.
There are many ways that I see in the past whites treated blacks but also bad ways English treated German and Irish immigrants. They often acted in hateful ways and that was wrong.
Your argument is false. Before the last century and for history of mankind nations were based on common heredity, common language and common cultural values including religion.
The french, German, Dutch and English all share a particular caucasi on particular heredity just as southern European Caucasians share another. The English Caucasians are actually a mixture of the angles and Saxons from Germany and French and norseman.
My point is this. Just as Englishmen were the product of several northern European Caucasian groups coming together so too whites in America are the result of several northern European caucasian groups coming together to form a new Caucasian variant group of humanity.
If you study the census from America in 1700s and early 1800s the English Caucasians dominated the other causians thus forming a new physical and cultural Caucasian group here in North America.
Therefore it is no different for a White person to take pride in their American Caucasian variant group and it’s traditions and accomplishments then it for a Jew to take pride in the history of Israel or an Englishmen to take pride in the Caucasian heredity he bares.
Again I agree with Anm1 that we must always be careful of allowing our love for our kindred to become hateful or sinful. But can an American Caucasian take pride in his heredity group which founded this country? Yes he can.
but whites are not saying they are proud to be white because of their common heredity, they are saying white pride because of what their whiteness gave them in America since its birth, thats why its a problem especially here in the south where I live. White power and white pride when said is said by neo nazis, kkk, white supremacists etc thats why its a problem.
Another thing on black pride. I have said before that i agree that the version of slavery that was practiced in North and South America was not the slavery allowed in the Bible and was wrong. It was truly an original sin in America and other countries on the American continents.
But let’s say slavery never occurred here in America and Blacks who came here came freely and knew their African tribal origins. Over time those blacks from various tribes would have merged together as you have now in the same way Caucasian groups did to form a new African group here.
That is the crux of my argument. Human beings naturally cluster by common heredity wherever they go and they form new kindred groups based on that common heredity.
im talking about the issue of white pride vs black pride- its not the same thing
Why can you as black person take pride that Jessie Owens whipped the Nazis in the Olympics(as u should) but I as a White man cannot take pride in a White man named George Washington who helped found this nation?
Can you explain the difference?
I totally get the negative connotation of the white pride with neo Nazis and the KKK. But they have abused the concept of special love for and pride in one’s kindred and their accomishments.
When a Neo Nazi or KKK uses white pride they are reminicing about whites enslaving blacks and wanting to return to that. When i think of white pride I think of great white men like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln and their contributions to building the country and culture we have today despite where they may have been wrong in some areas.
I just explained the difference. Yes we do all those things that you stated but the difference in being prideful of being white is that, they are not proud of their ancestry, they are proud of their skin color and what it brings. Blacks have no clue where they come from in Africa which has many countries. As african americans when we trace our history, the furthest we can go back is to slavery. Whites can trace their ancestry to Europe and some can even trace it to royal bloodlines. Black people can not do that due to what slavery has done to our cultural identity.
That is the difference, black are told their skin is ugly, colorism is a huge problem within our community. you can check out this blog for more information http://abagond.wordpress.com/
but white pride and black pride will never mean the same thing.
Let me try one more time to clarify my position on white pride. If my son, my father or my cousin three times removed invents some cure for cancer and I take pride that one of my kindred whether close or far removed did this great thing there is no sin in that.
However, if I take the position that my kindred is awesome and everyone else sucks and should now bow to my kindred that is sinful pride and bigotry.
White pride is a motto primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints. It is also a slogan used by the prominent post-Ku Klux Klan group Stormfrontand a term used to make racist/racialist viewpoints more palatable to the general public who may associate historical abuses with the terms “white nationalist”, “neo-Nazi”, and “white supremacist”.
Again I totally agree that the phrase “white pride” has been hijacked by white supremacists, neo Nazis, the KKK and other groups.
But so has the cross. KKK members have abused the cross for the last century. Do we have to let go of the cross because they have hijacked it for evil purposes? The answer is no.
Instead we call them out for the haters and terrorists that they are we do not allow them to steal the cross from true Christianity.
In the same way we have a false dichotomy in America. Whites are told it is racist to take pride in the accomplishments of men like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln and that is wrong.
no they are told being proud of your skin color is wrong due to how they set this system in place.
I am going to be talking more about the system issues you alude to in my upcoming posts.
But while your waiting for that let me ask you a question. Should Jews not be proud of King David’s accompliments including conquering Jerusalem for their capital and solidifying their nation because he committed adultery with a man’s wife and then had him murdered to cover it up?
I don’t think you are understanding, what I am saying. Being proud of accomplishments is not the same thing as being proud of just your skin color
Sapphire – I hear where you are coming from. You are right when you say it was unjust what happened when people were stolen from their land into slavery. It was sinful and wrong. And it is wrong that culture was lost and changed forever. What I think often happens though is that everyone gets lumped in together. Even then, not all whites were ok with that sin. And now, I would say that a strong majority of whites are not ok with that sin. Look at Boston – how nice was it that there were multitudes more coming out for what was right, and that the wrong people had to go home early. I know there is a lot of pain in this, but Jesus is the answer to it. White skin, black skin, any skin, He says feed My sheep. I would argue that we need to stop worrying about people’s skin color so much and appreciate that the Lord fashioned each of us in our mothers womb.
I know there is pain here, but you can’t have pride in your skin and say others shouldn’t have pride in theirs. That is envy pure and simple. I have thought this many times today, but it really isn’t the world or the world’s opinion we need to be concerned with, rather, it is God’s opinion we should be concerned with. Who cares what the world thinks of this color skin or that color skin – we KNOW what Jesus thinks and amen to that. Honestly, what else matters? I would argue we all need to stop taking pride in ourselves no matter what skin color we have and put our pride in the one who deserves it.
> “According to the survey, conducted by the Public Religion Research Institute in 2013, 91 percent of people in the close social networks of white Americans, or the people they most often talk to about important matters, are also white. Similarly, 83 percent of those in the close social networks of black Americans are black.”
You should couch this in terms of actual demographic percentages though. White social networks are actually very close to the actual demographics of America at-large (87% vs 91%). Black social networks are very far away from actual demographics. Does this mean that some races are more likely to reach out than others? If so, then why all the vitriol toward “white people” despite the fact they really are trying? Who benefits from this narrative?
The point should be, racism is sinful. However, being a particular race is not, as long as one does not look down on the others. To which the politically correct claims that whites are automatically racists for being white.
I am going to touch on the general topic of Racism later in this series. But I will give you a hint of where I am going. The definition of racism today has been so bastardized as to be almost unrecognizable. Racism simply put is hating someone, or looking down on someone simply because of their race or ethnic background.
For an Englishman to say “I love my English heredity and I am proud of the accomplishments of the English race of men” is NOT racism. But when an Englishman says “I think Englishmen are superior to all other races and should rule over them and by the way – the Italian race sucks!” – that is racism. My point is loving and preferring one’s kindred, those of common heredity, and being proud of accomplishments of those of your common heredity is NOT racism. It is when you hate or look down on other heredity groups that you become a racist.
It is a common way of speaking in the USA to say things like “I’m proud to be an American” or “I’m proud of my Irish heritage.” But to use Biblical language: pride is a sin. Not everyone that calls themselves a “proud American” is necessarily commuting the sin of pride, but there is a danger. It is better to get out of the habit of speaking in such a manner.
Instead, Christians are called to be thankful. I am thankful to be an American. All the blessings that I have been given I do not deserve. God’s blessings include including being born into this country – a land of religious freedom, and a land of economic opportunity. I am thankful for the founding fathers and the very good (not perfect) system of government that they created and that benefits us.
My wife is thankful that God made her a woman. I’m thankful that God made me a man. I’m thankful that I’m (mostly?) white, I suppose. Do people of other races thank God for making them as they are? I should hope so.
I am not descended from George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, or any of the Founding Fathers. And yet I am thankful that I enjoy the fruits of their labor, and I claim them as my American heritage. All Americans of every ethnicity should do the same! Why should an American of any color hesitate to call these men their Fathers?
White people tend to claim this heritage and say that they are “proud” to have it. Many black Americans do not claim this as their heritage and seem to be unthankful for it.
I don’t look to Europe for my cultural identity. For better or worse, I don’t know who all of my ancestors were, and they probably came from many different cultures. Yet I do not lament my “lost culture.” I embrace American history and identity as my own. In this day and age, all Americans of every color are invited to do the same.
This refusal irks some white people. It seems to be implied that we should be ashamed of the Founders, and that we should be ashamed of ourselves for celebrating this heritage. As though we are unaware of their faults. But we are thankful for their accomplishments and the benefits that have been passed to all of us.
Most Black Americans are the descendants of slave owners. Should they be ashamed of their ancestors? Absolutely not. We should all be thankful for the blessed positions that we have been born into.
As Christians we need to find our primary identity in Christ, and claim our citizenship in heaven as far more valuable than any other identity. We should embrace the fact that in Christ these walls are torn down, and not allow any of this resentment being stirred up in the world to interrupt our brotherhood.
yes we as african americans should be very proud and happy our african ancestors were taken from their homes, given non african names,beaten,raped, lynched, mutilated, families broken up by our white ancestors . Im also grateful for my white ancestors displacing my native american ancestors from their homes and placing them on reservations. Im grateful for my white ancestors that once slavery end keep by black ancestors segregated and if they stepped outta line tge KKK was there to keep them in line, im thinking for my great grandmother for having only a 6th grade education and taking out of school to sharecrop in a white mans field. im thinking for my grandmother taking care of little white girls and cleaning white homes.
Yes we as african americans are proud of our white ancestry
Sapphire – are you a Christian? The reason I ask is that my comments would be tailored depending.
If you are a Christian, you gotta let this hatred go! Jesus was hated, but He loved. He is our example and to follow Him, is to FOLLOW Him, and that may be dying to ourselves, dying to our hurts, dying to hurts that were done to our ancestors.
If you are not a Christian, then I have really good news. Jesus can heal the pain you feel over this, but you have to give it to Him for that to happen. Sometimes when we are comfortable in our pain, it can be scary to let it go. That is exactly what we must to though to grow and move forward.
It we remain in the past, no matter whether it was good, or if it was bad, or if it was ugly, then we are jailed there…
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