“I have read your article entitled, “8 Steps to confront your wife’s sexual refusal” and you are not a 100% right – but 150% right if that is possible. I can say this with confidence because I am an actual text book case — this happened to me. No theory here.” – This is part of an email I received today from a man who calls himself Andrew J(not his real name).
Feminists and other Christians who just want this issue of sexual denial to be swept under the rug want this to go away. They want my site to go away – but it continues to grow because this is a real problem and part of the larger problem of feminism and emotionalism invading and destroying our marriages.
Good men, men who love their wives and children and provide for them both physically, spiritually and emotionally are being defrauded in their marriages.
I love Andrew J’s writing style and he was very adamant about sharing his story and making sure other men don’t suffer alone and think there is nothing they can do to combat this evil. So with all that being said here is his story.
Andrew J’s Story
I have read your article entitled, “8 Steps to confront your wife’s sexual refusal” and you are not a 100% right – but 150% right if that is possible. I can say this with confidence because I am an actual text book case — this happened to me. No theory here.
I was married 22 years before getting divorced in 2013. During my marriage, I never cheated on my wife, I brought home a very large income and let my wife get anything she needed. We had started out with nothing together and by the time we were married 17 years, I had brought home enough that she didn’t have to work, even with 5 children and could afford a big house.
I always made sure that I was kind and a real marriage partner to my wife and a good father by being a Godly role model, reading the bible to my children, etc. as I am to this day. I only required sex one day a week. I never hit or raised a hand to her. My parents set a great example to me as marriage partners and parents. (They celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary last year). I do not gamble, have a drinking problem, nor do I spend much. I am quite thrifty. My parents had nothing and taught my sister and I to work hard and save, be loyal and not get divorced but work things out. I have been working since the 7th grade. What I am trying to say, is that there was no legitimate reason why what was about to happen to me should have ever occurred based on my behavior.
In May of 2009, my wife at the time informed me that if I really “loved her” that I would not ask for sex. She asked for a “break from sex”. Her reasoning was that I wanted sex all the time and that she had been unhappy during the entirety of our past 17 years of marriage. She made me feel like a sex maniac. At the time, we just moved into a new big house and we had everything in life you could want – great kids, the best house in the town, etc. She also refused to sleep in our bed and instead slept on the couch. She also stopped going to church.
I tried everything I could to get her to have sex with me. I asked for forgiveness for anything that could have made her mad at me. I asked her what I could to make the situation better. What I didn’t realize is that this only made the situation worse. Once she figured that she had me over a barrel, she began to disrespect me, take advantage of the situation and made me feel terrible about myself. She also began ignoring me (would not go on dates with me) and wanted to go out with friends. What happened was this: now that she could get away with this, she figured she could get away with a lot of other stuff.
I was heartbroken. In July, we met with the Pastor’s right hand man at our church, which had no effect on her. He was not firm enough with her. In September of 2009, we went to her father’s recommended Christian counselor, she also was not firm enough. I went to this counselor from September 2009 to December 2010. My ex-wife came a few times but hardly said anything.
When she did speak, she kept saying how I always wanted sex. She also said that when I demanded more sexual positions beside the missionary position and oral sex, that I made it worse. (We had done the missionary position for 7 years straight when I asked for this.) The counseling did nothing to change her mind about sex. The counselor never said she was wrong or called it sexual immorality like you so correctly noted. My ex-wife’s father, who is a very religious man and divorced twice, kept putting the onus on me to change. He told me (at the time he was divorced a second time) that he hadn’t had sex for months so I shouldn’t feel so bad (I was married at the time.) (This is a man who claims he knows the bible inside-out and goes to a large size church.) In summary, everyone made me feel like the bad guy on her side, except her uncle who told me he suspected an affair going on by her, because this is sex we are talking about, not a need, like food or water – except when my parents when they found out.
My parents opened my eyes to the truth about sex as you so pointed out in your article. My sister, who is happily married, also did. I realized that wanting sex is not a sin. My desire was not wrong. I also read the book, “His Needs, Her Needs,” which says that a man’s number one need is sex in marriage.
In summary, I essentially did steps 1 to 3 in your article during this period. Intuitively, I realized later after my divorce that I should have done essentially what you said in steps 4-7. When I read your article yesterday, it only confirmed what I believe should have been my right course of action — I should have done steps 5 to 7. It sounds wrong but you are totally right. As you can see by what I did, by not doing steps 4 to 7, I only made things worse because I was trying to be the “nice guy.”
To finish my story, she did not want to divorce me because financially she was “living it up.” A divorce would only lead to a monetary loss for her. My life consisted of getting up at 530 am for an hour and half commute to Manhattan, working all day and into the evening and then getting home at 7 or 8 pm. After a while, she wasn’t even making me dinner – as I mentioned she began to see that she could get away with this too. Then I would go upstairs to sleep alone. During this time when I still was living in the house and she would not have sex with me (September 2009 to December 2010), I did not cheat on her or go to any topless bars. I only masturbated to get through this. (I am giving you the dates of when things happened so you can see I really tried to work things out and just didn’t give up right away.)
In October 2010, I informed her that I would have to do the unthinkable – divorce her if she did not stop denying me. This phased her for about one day. In December 2010, she asked that I leave the house for the “children’s sake.” She did this so she could go sleep in what was supposed to be our bedroom and have free reign of the household. My oldest daughter also told me that she had an affair with the mechanic who was a neighbor at our old house. I thought that such was occurring and confronted this man twice about staying away from our house, when I lived there. This is the man that her uncle warned me about. She berated me for this action telling me he was just trying to help us with house repairs. I clearly see now that all of this was deception using religion, “love” and other reasons to show me that I was wrong (and sex was wrong to demand) and she was right.
But as you pointed out, she was sexually immoral and I was right. I don’t believe in divorce. It was the most difficult thing for me to do. After I moved out, I lived with my parents from January 2011 to June 2013. I finally filed for divorce in August 2011 with my sister coming with me to do it. I asked God for forgiveness.
I realize by your article that I actually divorced based on sexual immorality and you set me free from that condemnation. I filed because things only got worse and she enjoyed the lifestyle and didn’t care that I was around. The last straw occurred when I was informed that I was going to lose my job in July 2011 and she didn’t really care about me. Just the job and the money. I realized the marriage was over.
I am taking the time to write all this because I want other men to know that a wife needs to have sex with her husband. Yes, husbands, need to be Godly men but sex is not a favor you get for being a “good boy.”
I want men to know that tough love is required. Anything else doesn’t work for when she denies you sex. That sex is not a bad thing that religion and love have nothing to do with showing that sex is wrong. Sex is a great thing created by God for man and his wife. That getting divorced for sexual immorality is the only choice you have if she won’t change!
For me, I had to get divorced — it was because I was devastated emotionally and physically. I was falling apart. It was good that I left the house because she was literally toxic to my health and well-being. I lost weight, I could not concentrate, I felt awful and cried constantly. During this time, I went to church and never blamed God for any of this. He got me through the divorce and the aftermath today. My parents, friends and the Lord built me up to where I am today. I have no problem letting married people know that should have sex and that no sex in a marriage means “no marriage” as my sister put it.
I thank God for you to have the courage to speak the truth about this matter. I have no problem with you publishing this article.”
My Response to Andrew J
First of all Andrew I want to thank you so much for sharing your story. So many men suffer in silence with this and think they are the only ones who do, or that even if other men suffer with this there is nothing they can do about it.
As you pointed out often times counselors either give bad advice about this or they are not hard enough on the woman and usually tend to make an unending list of excuses for her sexual denial.
This is why we must be as the Bereans who “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so”(Acts 17:11).
There are still Churches(especially among the Baptist denomination that I am a part of) that will take a hard stand on this in marital counseling. But even in those churches there are few who would condone a man divorcing his wife over the sin of sexual refusal. This is because most Churches see only two Biblical reasons for divorce – adultery and abandonment.
What they fail to recognize,and I am glad that you did, is the fact that Biblical marital faithfulness is truly a two sided coin. On one side of it you cannot have sex with someone other than your spouse. But on the other side you MUST have sex with your spouse.
I am glad that you realize that your wife was sexually immoral both before she had that affair near the end and even before that when she was sexually denying you.
The acts of sexual defrauding AND adultery are acts of sexual immorality.
Often times if a woman is capable of one of these, she is capable of the other. Many women because they are completely lead by their emotions and passions instead of their duty to their husbands will begin with defrauding their husbands first.
They do this because they feel he has not earned the “emotional right” to have sex with them. This only serves to further alienate their husbands. Then after this denial goes on for sometime they seek to have their passions fed by other men who will worship them and tell them whatever they want to hear at which point they then give their bodies to those men in the act of adultery.
Your ex-wife is a textbook case of this scenario which is occurring in marriages across America and the Western world each and every day.
I am glad your family and especially your sister were there to comfort you and help you to see the evil that was being committed against your marriage by your wife.
I am sure you would admit that you were not the perfect husband. But God does require men to be the perfect husbands for wives to fulfill a core and foundational requirement of marriage which is to give their bodies to their husbands for their sexual needs.
You have also demonstrated what I have stated on this blog that the “Mr. Nice Guy” approach does not work.
As Christian husbands we should never appease sinful behavior, rather we must confront it head on.
You sound like a man of good Christian character, one who loved his wife and tried everything he could to repair the marriage and confront the mockery that his wife was making of his marriage.
I don’t know if you are dating or remarried, but If you are not I pray that God will give you the courage to seek out another wife. You have every right to, and can hold your head high knowing you did what was right before the Lord.
But remember the lessons you have learned from your first marriage and apply them to your next marriage. Yes as a husband you should love your wife by leading her, providing for her, protecting her, knowing her and honoring her. But on the flip side of that you must also discipline your wife and use correlation to show her that sinful behavior whether it is blatant disrespect or disobedience or sexual denial will not be tolerated.
Before you get engaged to a woman – your understanding of the Biblical duties of a husband and wife should be made clear to her.
A good Christian woman will respect all these attributes in Christian husband.
May God be with you and bless you. Thank you again for sharing your story.
14 thoughts on “Stories of Sexual Denial in Marriage Episode 8”
Thank you for opening my eyes..
Thanks for this. I am hurting in my marriage because of my wife’s flat denial of any sex to me. I was encouraged to read what your wrote.
BGR, thanks for sharing poor Andrew’s story (who we should all remember in prayer for certain). There is much to learn from this modern day parable for any Christian man who has ears. Here are my leading take aways:
1. A man needs to very careful when selecting his church. I know we all want to go where we feel most welcome but this story highlights yet again the lack of sound doctrine preached and practiced in today’s churches. I have no desire to start an interdenominational flame war, but a church with sound doctrine in the area of traditional gender roles and marriage with male leadership is going to be less likely to fall into feminist error. A non denominational congregation founded by the Reverend Milquetoast and his “Bride” are almost certainly going to respond like Andrew’s church did. Or even worse. Caveat Emptor.
2. Christian men must resist the urge to go full beta when practicing servant leadership. Some beta for comfort is okay and necessary in a marriage but always let your default frame be alpha. And make sure she reacts to your frame and not you go reacting to hers.
3. An inaccurate understanding of the ability to “put away” a disobedient wife, as taught by Luther and other historic figures in both the reformed and catholic traditions leads modern Christian men to believe they are hostage to their shrewish wives short of known acts of adultery. They are not. That is not the traditional teaching of the Western Church. It is instead the teaching of the feminized 21st century American Church where a man can only divorce for adultery but a woman may divorce for a host of whimsical reasons and still remain a model of Christian womanhood in her assembly.
4. And my most controversial point probably for this Board, is that a man needs to learn, know and wield Game. Especially married men. And Christian married men most of all as they are up against it the most. The Adversary still prowls about the Earth, seeking whom and what he may destroy. A Christian man refusing to learn Game because some other men have used it for immoral purposes is the equivalent of a man refusing to learn how to shoot a gun because he heard someone got murdered with one once, even though the hungry wolf is at his door.
I agree that we have to be so careful as men when leading our family to a church, and make no mistake it is the husbands role as the Spiritual leader of his home to choose the church and his wife and children should follow him there. I believe it is act rebellion, in the highest order, for a woman to go a different church than her husband with one exception. If he is wanting to attend a cult church like the Mormons or Jehovah’s witnesses or a church that is non-christian that is different. But if he is having his family attend a Church that preaches Jesus Christ was the Son of God, the God-Man who died for the sins of the world and rose again on the third day then she should be following her husband in going to that church.
Also I realize we I could open a big can of worms here – but I think some Christian denominations are far better at defending Biblical gender roles than others. These would include conservative Baptist churches, Lutheran churches, Presbyterian churches and of course Catholic churches. But I had to choose the strongest two Christian denominations on the teachings of Biblical gender roles and traditional marriage it would be Baptist Churches and Catholic Churches.
Unfortunately one of the worst Christian denominations to be in if you still believe the Word of God regarding divinely instituted gender roles is the Pentecostal and Apostolic churches. I have many dear friends who in the Pentecostal churches and they will admit this is a HUGE problem in their denomination. I have said this with all due respect to my dear Pentecostal brothers as to why their churches have been taken over by feminism. This is why the Pentecostal and Apostolic churches have such a high number of female ministers which I would argue is direct contradiction to explicit new Testament commands that a woman is not to lead a church.
The Pentecostal and Apostolic churches have been lead astray because of rampant emotionalism. Emotionalism was one of the founding principles of the earliest Pentecostal and Apostolic churches and where emotionalism is allowed to thrive and grow – feminism is sure to follow.
While there are some Baptist Churches that have female Pastors as well – when you go and take a closer look at these Churches(which are usually African American) they are usually Pentecostal Churches in Baptist clothing.
I agree men must resist the urge to go “full beta” or what I would call “Mr. Nice Guy” with their wives when practicing servant leadership. Yes we are called to be servant leaders -but the key word is “leader”. Yes Jesus washed his disciples feet, but is that what he spent the majority of his time doing? No! He spent the majority of his time serving his disciples and other followers by leading them and going about his mission to save us and build his church. Rather than spending the majority of his time serving tables – he spent the majority of his time exhorting others to “follow me”!
The way men and women serve one another is very different, and their service to each other is just as distinct as how God made the male and female bodies and natures different.
A man primarily serves his wife by LEADING while a woman serves her husband primarily by FOLLOWING. This truth must be preached from the pulpit of every Church which names the name of Christ and every home which claims to follow God and his Word.
One again – spot on. There is a woeful lack of knowledge of Church history in many Christian circles and Churches today. We must call people back to an understanding of the fact that men do have the power to “put away” a disobedient and rebellious wife. I get a lot of people who email me and ask me – “Does the Bible allow a man to divorce his wife for being un-submissive?”
My answer to that is – show me a rebellious wife and I will show you a sexually denying wife and the Bible does allow for a man to put away his wife for the sexually immoral behavior of sexual denial. In any marriage I have seen where a man actually does get regular sex from an un-submissive wife do you know the only reason he is getting regular sex from her? It is because he has abdicated his leadership position in the home and given it to her so he can get sex. But the moment these men attempt to take back their Biblical position of headship I guarantee you the first thing that woman will do is shut off the sexual tap.
Well Dash you know where I stand on this. I don’t think men need “Game”. Men simply need to lead and be men, be confident and be willing to stand even when a decision they make displeases their wife. Men need to make clear to their wives before they marry and after they marry what God expects from both of them as far their duties and commitments to each other. Men need to discipline their wives in Biblical fashion and in the right spirit when the situation calls for it.
The only fears a wife should have toward her husband are these:
1. If she stands and defiantly and chronically denies her husband sexually then divorce will not be far behind.
2. If she rebels against him or disrespects her husband in other ways he will use every Biblical disciplinary measure at his disposal to attempt to bring her back to obedience to God’s commands.
But hey – we agree on three out of four! That is good.
What about a husband who insists that she MUST vow her trust and say that she completely trusts him, before he can feel emotionally ready to be intimate with her? He says if there is not trust, there is no root to the relationship, so it is on me to determine if I am going to agree to trust him again. Otherwise he cannot emotionally go there (so he says) sexually.
Great post! I love that you’re publishing these men’s testimonies of their failed marriages to give others courage and tools to use for themselves. There’s nothing else out there like this – even Dalrock doesn’t have these steps I believe, and the secular sites like Rollo’s don’t cover the aspect of Christian obedience and adherence to faith.
It’s so sad that once the husband gives up his frame (this is what they mean by describing him as “beta”) that the wife sees that she has become the “dominant” one in the relationship and then she feels free to disrespect him in all kinds of other painful ways. And she’ll feel self-righteous in doing it! Truly believing that she is “better” than him – it seems to be a very strange psychological thing for women. This is what red pill sites convey well – that once a man loses his ability to be firm and confident (his frame), the wife is likely to take advantage and no longer respects him. I think Rollo has a post called “She Turned On Me” that perfectly describes this experience of a man going from alpha (confident and in his own frame – control of himself) to supplicating beta (trying to be the nice, good man that constantly gets walked on).
It was painful to read how Andrew’s ex-father-in-law even took the wife’s side over the sexual denial, and wanted HIM to change. The thing that boggles my mind is how **other men** can’t see how wrong that situation is. They’d rather pander to women than do what’s right and good for all the people involved, especially if they are children.
I’m glad you’re getting confirmation that your steps work.
I am praying for you.
Thanks. One of my goals from the beginning of when I made this blog was not only to identify the problems in modern male/female relationships and related social issues such as feminism, but it was also to offer Biblical solutions to these problems. Many on both sides – secular and Christian have made great efforts to identify the problem of feminism and its impact on society. Some have even offered secular solutions(like Rollo) but I felt that on the Biblical Christian side there was a vacuum when it came to solutions on some of these issues. In fact even in conservative Bible believing churches while they preach hard against feminism – they usually rarely talk about discipline as if all a man can do is pray for his rebellious wife. They act as if a husband is some kind of impotent authority with no real power to at least attempt to affect change in his wife’s life.
This is the vacuum I believe the Lord has called me to fill, to remind people of what God’s Word says and give men real Biblical tools with which to fight against sin their homes.
@ BGR, well 3 out of 4 is a very good day in any ballpark! Keep ringing the bell, there are many men (and women) who are ready for this message. They know in their guts that they have been sold a lie.
@ Dragonfly. Thanks for explaining frame in more detail and far better than I did. The phenomenon that you describe, where the more a wife successfully asserts her will, the more she will hold her husband in contempt, is easily observable once you take your blinders off, but it never fails to pole axe me when I see it in the raw. Men seem to believe that by continually acquiescing to their wives they are building relational equity. Nothing can be farther from the truth. While men may think in their weakness they are being generous, women however view weakness in their man as profoundly frightening and downright dangerous. They believe if he is not strong enough to stand up to his own wife, how can he stand up to the world and protect her and their children? This is why if he doesn’t turn from his doormat ways she will end up holding him in utter contempt. And go seek out a man who is worthy of her respect.
This is yet another uncomfortable truth that the modern church ignores to the destruction of Christian families.
“And go seek out a man who is worthy of her respect.
This is yet another uncomfortable truth that the modern church ignores to the destruction of Christian families.”
Dash, This line in of itself is find in dating. This blog and others like it are for married couples. Once in the marriage there should be no seeking out another man…. that is what we are seeing yes, but that is sinful and must be confronted and stopped. The problem is that even pastors are blaming men when the wife is unfaithful, and of course when the man is unfaithful.
You are seeing it backward and being a white knight. If a wife is in utter contempt because she has lost respect, she needs to be held accountable for the loss of respect and contempt. That is the whole issue in the manosphere including christian manosphere. We are letting women get away from it.
Dragonfly is by far ahead of the curve when it comes to her marriage role, but she knows women are being contentious and disrespectful to their husbands for not giving them something that they feel they deserve. The problem is that something always changes and these women were not taught joy and to be content. If a husband is a decent man who comes home after work and is supporting his family and doing what he can to cherish his wife she should be helping him.
Marriage relationships are fluid, but the bible is a manual for how that marriage should be. What if a husband who spent 6 years of his life getting an MBA and worked for a company for 15 years gets laid off? He is going to be a blubbering blob looking for support from the one person in this world he should be able to count on. This is where she will step up to the challenge of a helpmeet or turn into the monster MOST women are today and put him through the ringer, take his kids, his home, and ruin the remaining years of his life because he cannot keep her in her lifestyle and needs someone to help him pick himself up.
I probably misinterpretted your position. If I have excuse me. I have just seen what I wrote first hand several, several times including my inlaws.
@ Jeff. I do think you misinterpreted what i tried to say, but no harm no foul! That is the consequence of us trying to communicate in this rather limited medium as opposed to just talking over coffee. If you knew me or have read what I write I am probably the last guy you would call a white knight. I have long since stopped serving the feminine imperative. I am red in tooth and claw! What I wanted to stress is that persistent doormating as preached by the 21st century church for a Christian man, will lead his wife to lose respect for her husband. And when she loses respect its game over. Without respect love evaporates shortly thereafter. It’s disobedience and horrid for sure but it’s primal and real. To ignore it is naive. As you saw in your own experience. A man needs to be aware of this possibly and guard against it. I am not excusing this feminine behavior. Far from it. I am telling men to, like a good scout, be prepared. And shut it down. Forewarned is forearmed. So I think we are in agreement but I may not be as clear as I probably should have been.
What is this ‘trust’ he is talking about? Did he break your trust at some point? Did he commit adultery and you forgave him but cannot trust him? If can elaborate a bit more on the trust issue that would help.
Women (and the occasional man) like the one in this story make me angry. Seriously angry. Do they not realize they are hurting themselves, their children, and other men/women, along with their husband (who they have obviously long since ceased to care for)? I hope as well that this man can move on to a woman who will be a far better wife, but that road is incredibly difficult. The prolonged pain and rejection this man faced is going to influence every future relationship he pursues (and in some cases, doesn’t pursue). I have seen this happen numerous times including to my own husband. He was not previously married so it was not sexual denial, but he was lied to, rejected, and in other ways treated VERY poorly by numerous women he dated prior to meeting me, and believe me it took a long time for him to get over his fears that I would be the same, and be willing to commit to me. As I had done nothing to merit that, it made me quite insecure and a little angry (at both the women and him). Time does help, but we had a conversation about it just earlier this week so it still continues to affect both of us.
As much as I love a good re-marriage story, I really hope this man takes the time to work through his hurt before pursuing another woman. It will be incredibly difficult otherwise. More so for him than for us d/t the extent and length of time it covers.