Young ladies – If you pursue a career you may fail the Christian race

The Bible often compares the Christian life to an Olympic race. In fact many of the Greek terms that Paul uses in talking about our Christian life as a race refer to the Greek Olympics (words like stadium, athlete and gym all are used by Paul).

Just like we separate our Olympic events by gender, God also has separate races for each gender to run and different rules depending on gender. The Bible also says we must compete (live our lives) according to God’s rules. If we compete but cheat or deviate from the rules we will not receive the rewards for running the race:

“Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” – II Timothy 2:5 (NASB)

A Tale of Two Runners

So now imagine this if you will. There are two races with different obstacles to overcome, but they use the same course. On that course you would see male and female signs on different obstacles.   This is a timed event it is run by one person at a time.

So a man runs the course and as he comes to each obstacle if it is marked “male” he overcomes the obstacle, if it is marked “female” he goes around it and continues with the race till he finally finishes the race where the judge awards him with his prize.

Now a woman comes to the same course. She has decided before she ran this race that she will run the male obstacles instead of the female obstacles. She has decided she does not like the female obstacles and prefers the male obstacles.

So she runs the race just as good as that man who ran just before her. Every time she comes to a male obstacle she overcomes it but then she skips the female obstacles as the man did.   In fact she matches his time as she runs toward the finish line. She crosses over feeling triumphant and she turns to the judge to receive her prize as the man before her did but he tells her she has failed the race.

“But I did everything the man who ran before me did and I even did it in the same time!” the woman says.

The judge replies “But you are not a man, you are a woman. You did not meet the challenges that were assigned to you as a woman, but instead chose to do the male obstacles that were not assigned to you. All your hard work was a waste because you did not overcome the obstacles that were assigned to you”

Over the last century feminism has taught women “you can have it all”. You can have a career, a husband and kids. You can balance your career and your obligations to your family in the same way men do. In fact you and your husband can just split the responsibilities of caring for the kids and your home.

But this is lie.

God never meant for women to have to balance a career and family obligations as men are meant to do. A woman’s complete focus was meant to be on serving the needs of her husband, her children and her home. She would only go outside her home to the extent that it did not affect her performing her duties to her home.

But because we live in a sin cursed world sometimes a woman has no choice but to work to support herself and her family and do what God did not intend for her to have to do and balance work and family obligations. If her husband becomes disabled, abandons her or dies a woman may have no choice but to work. Some women have husbands who in their sinful greed force their wives to work when they should not be.

Another reason a woman may have to pursue a career is because by no fault of her own she has not been able to find a husband and she eventually has to work to support herself.

The push to get women out of the home and into careers

Sadly today many women are actually encouraged and taught from a young age in their schools, homes and even churches that planning to be a stay at home mom is a “waste of their full potential”. My 13 year old daughter recently experienced this in the junior high she is attending.

They had a project to do for class which had them writing out their life goals and a big part of that was what they wanted to do for a career. It was simply assumed that everyone in that class, both the young men and young women should have career ambitions.

The young teens were all comparing what they wanted to be when they grew up and some of the girls said they wanted to be a doctor, or a nurse and one said a scientist. Then it came around to my daughter and she said “stay at home mom”. She told me after she said that you could have heard a pin drop. Then one of her girlfriends asked her “don’t you want more than that?” I was so proud of her response. She said “this is what I believe God wants me to do”.

She told me they were actually offended by that and by her choice to dedicate her life fully to her future husband, her future children and her future home.

But make no mistake – the distain for the Biblical role of a wife (which is what my daughter was espousing) did not happen overnight. It took decades to accomplish.

“In the 1950s, only 19 percent of mothers with small children worked outside the home, said Stephanie Coontz, a historian at The Evergreen State College in Washington and author of “A Strange Stirring: The Feminine Mystique and American Women at the Dawn of the 1960s” (Basic Books, 2011). As of 2008, more than 60 percent of moms with kids under age 6 were in the work force, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Working moms of older kids are even more common. As of 2008, close to 80 percent of mothers with children between ages 6 and 17 worked outside the home. That is a rise of about 10 percent since 1984.

Attitudes haven’t kept up with reality, however: According to the Pew Research Center, only 16 percent of Americans think a mom who works full time is ideal for young kids. A third favor moms staying at home full time, and 42 percent think part-time work would be ideal.”

http://www.livescience.com/29521-5-ways-motherhood-has-changed.html

The two sources of the cultural shift from stay at home moms to career women

What brought about this change from only 19% of moms with young children working outside the home to it now skyrocketing to 60%? The answer is two words – Feminism and Materialism.

Feminism encouraged women to be selfishly ambitious and some men became greedy and materialistic when they realized by allowing their wives to work they could double their household income. Some women today would much rather stay home and care for their home and children but their greedy husbands force them to work outside the home.

Speaking of husbands – while this post is primarily written toward women – let me just say Biblically speaking a man has no business getting married if he is not ready to provide for his wife. I realize a lot of men today do that, but this breaks the model of marriage God has designed.

“Prepare your work outside and make it ready for yourself in the field; Afterwards, then, build your house.” – Proverbs 24:27 (NASB)

This verse from Proverbs has been widely interpreted to be referring to a young man working and preparing to have a family. Preparation and provision come before having your own household.

Now we will return to women and selfish ambition.

The selfish ambition fueled by feminist propaganda also caused divorce to become common place where it peeked at around 50% in the 1980’s before having a slight decline.   But the dirty little secret about why divorce has leveled off is because marriage itself is down. Single parenting and cohabitation rates have sharply risen since the 1980s.

There is nothing wrong with a man or woman being ambitious. But we are selfishly ambitious when we are ambitious for things God never meant us to have. The Proverbs 31 wife is a very ambitious wife, but her entire life’s focus was her husband, her children and her home. Even when she temporarily went outside the home her focus was always turned back toward her home so her husband had no worries in his home. She had everything under control.

Rush Limbaugh is certainly not a very religious man and I don’t endorse everything he says when compared with the Scriptures. But back in 2012 when he was commenting on our cultural shifts and the negative views toward stay home moms he had this to say:

“Instead of having the government, stay-at-home moms have a husband to support them — and you don’t think that irritates some of these leftist women? Remember the early days of feminism…

A relationship, a man were shackles.

That was holding you back. It was denying you your full potential. Being a mother, staying at home? You’re letting the sisterhood down, but you’re letting yourself down, too. It was a full-court press to throw away as many traditions in male-female relationships, both at home and at work, as possible…

See, the women are not supposed to depend on that. It was okay if the government ended up providing for you — that was cool — but not a husband, not a man. You’re supposed to do that yourself. And if you couldn’t do it yourself, then you turn to government programs.”

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/04/16/why_stay_at_home_moms_threaten_the_left

Many Christian women today have drank the feminist Kool-Aid. Even some good conservative Bible preaching churches have drank the feminist Kool-Aid. I can’t tell you how many Christians I have spoken to that have said our young women must have college degrees and careers and you know what the most common reason was? In case they ever have to support themselves.

We have taught now over decades and are continuing to teach women to be independent of men – to not need a man. My own mother-in-law told me this several years back that she taught her daughters to “never be dependent on a man”. This feminism was ingrained in her daughters and the Lord has had to bring a lot of things into my wife’s life and her sister’s life to get some of this thinking out (sometimes it comes back and rears its ugly head though).

God shows in his Word that the husband/wife relationship is to be a model of the relationship of Christ to his Church. In the same way that the Church looks to Christ for their provision and protection a woman was designed to look to her husband for her provision and protection.

Instead our wicked culture has replaced the husband as the provider with the government as the provider. Truly the only way feminism thrives is in a socialistic system that makes women less dependent on men by having the government provide for their needs or pushing them to provide for their own.

Feminism can only survive in an artificial environment.

Nature opposes feminism. In the absence of a social welfare state feminism would rapidly collapse as women came to see their natural dependence on men for their provision and protection.

How women fail the race God has set before them

The Bible says:

“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us” – Hebrews 12:1 (KJV)

Young Christian ladies please hear what the Word of God says about the race God has set before you. There are two courses God sets before you and ONLY two courses and you must choose one or the other. The course of marriage or the course of celibacy. If you run the course of celibacy then rules for the female marriage course do not apply.

These are the obstacles or goals you are to meet to win this race.

The 7 Rules of God’s race for married women

Rule #1 Submit to and obey your husband. (Ephesians 5:22 & 24, Colossians 3:18, Titus 2:5, I Peter 3:1 & 5-6)

Rule #2 Reverence your husband. (Ephesians 5:33 & I Peter 3:5-6)

Rule #3 Love your husband. (Titus 2:4)

Rule #4 Ravish your husband with your body. (Proverbs 5:19, I Corinthians 7:3-5)

Rule #5 Always speak to your husband with a kind, gentle and quiet spirit. (Proverbs 31:26, I Peter 3:4)

Rule #6 Bear and care for your children if God opens your womb to do so. (Genesis 1:28, I Timothy 5:14)

Rule #7 Manage all the domestic affairs of your home (cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping) so your husband has no worries about his home while he is away working. (Titus 2:5, Proverbs 31:10-31)

There is a different race that God has set before you as a woman, then the one he has set before men. You must run the race according to the rules God has set for YOU, not those that he has set for men.

Someone might say “What about loving God and obeying God?” My answer to that is the very foundation for these 7 rules is love for God and obedience to God.

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” – I John 5:2-3 (KJV)

You can’t enter the race unless you register as a runner

This is the Christian woman’s race. You can’t run in the Christian woman’s race unless you first become a Christian. Then your race performance will be judged by how you followed the course rules.

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.

If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” – I Corinthians 3:11-15 (KJV)

At the Bema seat of Christ every Christian will stand and his or her life’s work will be judged.

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” – II Corinthians 5:10 (KJV)

The Bema seat (which is what this in the Greek) was a place of reward after a competition. Our salvation is not a reward for how we run the Christian race, but it is the gift of God.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” – Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)

However our rewards from God are indeed earned by how we ran the race while we lived her in these bodies. Did we accept the rules of his race or did we make up our own rules as we ran?

But I can follow all those 7 rules and have a career!

Christian women listen to me. You cannot run the race God has set before you as a woman and have the same kind of career a man can. You might be able to work part time and you may be able to work while your kids are in school.

But if you try to have a career in the same way that your husband does you will drop something else.

You cannot be in be in two places at once.

Either you will be gone from home 50 hours a week or more chasing a career or you will be home.

When you have those young infants and small children – either you will be caring for them or someone else will be while you are gone 50 hours a week.

If you are working and gone 50 hours a week pursuing your career you will not have the same energy to give or focus that is needed toward you husband, your children and your home. Something will slip and what will slip is what is supposed to be the primary focus of your life.

Don’t believe the lie

Don’t be like Eve who was deceived by the serpents lie.

“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” – Genesis 3:1 (KJV)

The Devil told Eve she should could have it all and she fell for the lie.

Don’t believe the lies of feminism. Believe what God says in his Word.

Run the race that he set before you as a woman, not the race that he set before your husband as a man.

But you can’t survive on one income these days!

While it is true that some women have to work because of economic necessity (no husband or husband is disabled) often times it is because of wants that they work, not needs.

Just look back at the average homes that were built in the 1950’s and earlier and look at the homes that are built now. The home back then were smaller and simpler – kids used bunk beds and crammed into rooms. Now every child has to have their own room.

Families often survived on one car. Now every family must have two cars, and not just two cars but two NEW cars.

We have to go on expensive vacations each year and we have to eat the best foods.

We have forgotten as a society how to live simpler. Feminism and Materialism have grown up together in our country.

But you can choose to live simpler, you can choose to live God’s way. You can choose to sacrifice the vacations or drive two used cars instead of new ones. You can choose to do what is right and run the race that God has set before you.

Ladies – don’t let having a career cost you your reward

Let me be blunt ladies. When God judges what you did with your life – yes your career will matter. But not in the way you think. Your career will matter in how much it detracted from your ability to serve your husband, your children and your home.

When God reviews the tapes on your life and sees that you purposefully planned from the time you were young to have children and ship them off to a day care center six weeks after they were born so you could return to your more “fulfilling” career you will be held to account for this. You will lose the reward for being a wife and mother that you could have had. You will be ashamed.

“Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.” II John 1:8 (NASB)

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48 thoughts on “Young ladies – If you pursue a career you may fail the Christian race

  1. Do you have any articles on your blog that give advice to women who work outside the home because their husband so wishes it to be that way? I don’t fall into this category, but I can see how women who are convicted to be stay-at-home-wives, but have husbands that insist they work outside the home may feel reading this blog.
    It is as though they start running the woman’s race, and get to the first male obstacle and run around it, but then their husband at the side lines shouts to them “Go back Go back! You missed an obstacle!”, so as a submissive wife she obey’s her husband. Then they get to the first woman’s obstacle and they have to do that one too in order to appease the judge at the end. Their husband wishes them to run the man’s course and the judge wants them to run the woman’s course, so they do both. When they get to the end of the race, they feel like they are failures because even though they completed the race and both set’s of obstacles their time is double that of the other men/women who ran the course.
    I can name at least 2 women who would love to be stay-at-home-wives, but their husbands are against it. Whenever the topic of a woman’s rightful place comes up they become silent and I can see the hurt in them.
    I’ve told them that they are still following the first rule of marriage and that is to submit to their husband wishes. I’ve also told them not to try and change their husband, but to rather petition to Jesus/God in prayer and allow Him to open their husband’s eyes and heart. But I think that they would appreciate reading/hearing this from another source.

    I would also like to mention that it is truly difficult to survive on one income in a third world country (which is where I live). Most families don’t own a car, but owning a run down 1980’s car would be cheaper than using public transportation every day to get themselves to work and their children to school. Most families don’t have electricity in their households, but electricity is cheaper than the paraffin they need to cook on. Most families don’t have running water, so they need to walk to the community tap to get water for their household, then they need to use the paraffin cooker to boil the water so that they can drink it safely. I won’t even mention how toilet’s work (communal long drops, need I say more?).
    Many women and men both work so that their family is just able to have a small 2 room house (2 room, NOT 2 bedroom) that has water and electricity, and so that their children can go to school and get an education. Not only this, but often these men and women have to both work because their parents are not surviving on their pensions and they have to support them. Often there are siblings that die of HIV-Aids and then the nieces and nephews also become the responsibility of the young couple. I am so grateful that I don’t have the struggle that some of the people in this country have.

    Any person from a first world country that says they cannot live on one salary should just visit a third world country for a month to really see how little a family needs to survive.

  2. Very well said, BGR.
    I like the analogy of the race. This is so true, women and men have a different series of life expectations and obligations.
    “Feminism encouraged women to be selfishly ambitious and some men became greedy and materialistic when they realized by allowing their wives to work they could double their household income.”
    The truth is, dual income lifestyles with children do not result in the doubling of income the vast majority of the time. I’ve had this conversation many times, usually with young women who claim some day they intend to “have it all”. Then they will site a person they thinks has it all. Invariably if one speaks to that person she will know the real story.
    There’s no way to have it all. How do I know? I was once that person women pointed to and said, “How does she do it? She has it all!”
    I assure you it was never true. But people lie to themselves. They don’t do the third grade level mathematics necessary to weigh the real costs and gains of working after work related expenses are taken out (this isn’t only a monetary equation).

  3. Great post.

    I will argue one point.

    Yes men can be greedy too, but look up the statistics. Women have almost double the credit card debt that men have and it goes higher if they are single. Men have expensive hobbies but a set of gold clubs can last. Look at the joke about women’s closet.

    Ever hear the expression about his money is our money, but my money is mine? THE GOVERNMENT REALIZED THAT 2 INCOMES MEANS MORE TAX REVENUE, so you might want to rethink that.

    In grad school and for about 5 years after we lived in apartments. Luckily in decent areas. They dont make small homes in nice neighborhoods anymore, at least not around here. Everything now is hoa with min sqft. There are definitely bad kids in umc homes, but they have an expectations on them to eventually make something of themselves and the parents for the most part are decent citizens.

    The lmc in my area are great people but have down trodden, defeatist mentallity that they pass down to their kids. I dont want to be around that. I use to not mind and i have great friends in this category but do not wish to have my kids feel that going into machining is the worst thing and you are lower value because of it. We are all valued the same in Gods eye. I teach my son that there is nothing wrong with being lmc, its your attitude. Work, work hard, learn to love God and work and bring him glory no matter what you do. My fear is for him finding a wife and not feeling trapped in the lmc mentallity.

    I have been blessed, but i gave up the mercedes and bmw. They were always breaking down any way. I live in a gated golf community and dont play golf. I drive a 23 year old toyota truck and it is fabulous!

    I buy quality and keep and repair it.

    Get yourself in a nice neighborhood and all other crap is deprecitating liabilities…. Cars, clothes, furniture etc.

  4. So if a woman loses her husband or has never married then it is ok and not a sin for her to run the man’s race by getting a job and working outside the home? Either God’s rules in this race are to be followed 100% at all times like the 7 rules you listed here or no matter what the reason, widowhood, husband’s illness or even being single, that makes her have to run the man’s race, whatever keeps a woman from following the ideal plan for a godly womanhood she is still breaking God’s rules for her life and running the man’s race.
    But actually are you not putting God in a box with your 10 rules for a godly married life and 7 rules for a woman? It sounds too much like Gothardism.
    Besides, we no longer live in 0 BC. Culture and times are different. There are many things woman do now that were once ascribed to men, wearing pants, ownership of property, reading and writing. When did it stop being sin for women to do those things. There are opportunities for women to go to college and have careers that did not exist until recent times. I agree that it is hard to do both motherhood and career and I chose not to have children (something you say is breaking God’s rules) because I needed to work because my husband was always ill with something. Besides I never had any desires to have kids.
    I found out that God does not have the same exact plan for every Christian’s life and He works within the framework of the culture. Try telling these 7 rules to an impoverished mother in Ethiopia who needs to go out to work so her children will not starve. God’s rules work in any culture, any time or place. Jesus left only 2 rules before he went back to heaven, Love God and love others. Then it is between Him and the individual believer to wrestle out the rest. This is just my 2 cents and 60 plus years of walking (stumbling, getting up, going the opposite direction, being roped back in, out running, pulling back, etc) with God. er,

  5. ashleighletley,

    Your Statement:

    “Do you have any articles on your blog that give advice to women who work outside the home because their husband so wishes it to be that way? I don’t fall into this category, but I can see how women who are convicted to be stay-at-home-wives, but have husbands that insist they work outside the home may feel reading this blog.
    It is as though they start running the woman’s race, and get to the first male obstacle and run around it, but then their husband at the side lines shouts to them “Go back Go back! You missed an obstacle!”, so as a submissive wife she obey’s her husband. Then they get to the first woman’s obstacle and they have to do that one too in order to appease the judge at the end. Their husband wishes them to run the man’s course and the judge wants them to run the woman’s course, so they do both. When they get to the end of the race, they feel like they are failures because even though they completed the race and both set’s of obstacles their time is double that of the other men/women who ran the course.
    I can name at least 2 women who would love to be stay-at-home-wives, but their husbands are against it. Whenever the topic of a woman’s rightful place comes up they become silent and I can see the hurt in them.”

    You are absolutely right that men sometimes bear the blame for forcing their wives to be career women out of greed. I did mention that in this post although that post was primarily directed toward women who purposefully choose to be career women and not because of economic necessity.

    You are also right that a woman must submit to her husband, if he tells her she has to work then she should do that. She should still come home and do her best to take care of her home and children and husbands needs. I know that is very HARD to do in this situation and her husband is definitely in the wrong. But two wrongs never make a right. A wife cannot rebel against her husband because he is making bad decisions or decisions based in materialism or greed. God will be his judge.

    Your Statement:

    “I would also like to mention that it is truly difficult to survive on one income in a third world country (which is where I live). Most families don’t own a car, but owning a run down 1980’s car would be cheaper than using public transportation every day to get themselves to work and their children to school. Most families don’t have electricity in their households, but electricity is cheaper than the paraffin they need to cook on. Most families don’t have running water, so they need to walk to the community tap to get water for their household, then they need to use the paraffin cooker to boil the water so that they can drink it safely. I won’t even mention how toilet’s work (communal long drops, need I say more?).
    Many women and men both work so that their family is just able to have a small 2 room house (2 room, NOT 2 bedroom) that has water and electricity, and so that their children can go to school and get an education. Not only this, but often these men and women have to both work because their parents are not surviving on their pensions and they have to support them. Often there are siblings that die of HIV-Aids and then the nieces and nephews also become the responsibility of the young couple. I am so grateful that I don’t have the struggle that some of the people in this country have.

    Any person from a first world country that says they cannot live on one salary should just visit a third world country for a month to really see how little a family needs to survive.”

    ashleighletley – thank you for that perspective. We are so spoiled here in the America and we really don’t know what it means to live in true poverty as people do in nations where you are living. I believe God holds men and women responsible for their life choices. Sometimes as you correctly point out a woman has no choice but to work. I believe God honors for that in these situations where the need is genuine and she is not doing it out of some selfish ambition to have a career or the husband is not pushing his wife to work out of his selfish greed.

    But again if a woman works not because she wants to, but because her husband orders her to then the responsibility is no longer hers but his and God will hold him to account for that although she must continue to do her best to tend to the needs of her home as well.

  6. First off, I agree that it is definitely ideal for a mother to be home with her children. My mom was a SAHM and I was immensely better off for it. I am also proud of your daughter for being willing to stand up for what she believed in front of her mocking peers. Especially as a teenager, that could not have been easy and it speaks well to your success as a parent.

    However, you do make (or at least seem to make) a couple false dichotomies here. Early on, we have the apparent choice between a husband either being physically absent (dead, divorced, or present but unable to work d/t disability) or being greedy. However, that is not always true or likely even mostly true. There are some couples where a husband and wife work hard together and love each other and are unable to live on just the husband’s income. Which takes me to the next one where a couple either is able to survive on the husband’s income or they are greedy. Again, a false choice. Me and my husband both work and we have a tiny apartment, two used cars, and do cheap vacations like camping and using my parent’s time share points. Finally, we have the choice between a woman either staying home with her children or willfully planning on sending them to day care before they are even conceived. Again, not true. My husband and I are hopeful that in 5ish years, he will be able to support our family on his income alone, and I am very excited at the possibility to be a SAHM. However, for this baby at least, i will be working during his/her early years. However, we are already discussing ways to avoid daycare and to maximize one of us being with the baby as much as possible. As a nurse, if I needed to use daycare everytime I worked, that would still be only 3 days.

    Your use of Proverbs 24:27 is interesting, but as it does not specify its use for marriage, it cannot be used as definitive proof. However, even if it is talking about marriage, it also never talks about the husband not utilizing his wife in the ‘preparing of the field’. I believe it is very irresponsible for a couple to get married without a plan on how to provide for their new family, but that is not the same thing as having the husband alone being the one to provide.

    Finally, what is supposed to happen if a women never goes to college, marries young, is well provided for, but then her husband dies in a freak accident/illness? Yes, she is now allowed to work, but she is very unemployable at that point, especially for a salary that would provide for her children. I do think that women should have a career option in case they need it. My parents were very vocal for this, not so that I wouldn’t need a man (my parents were no feminists), but in case I either didn’t get one right away, or if something happened to him. I remember telling my dad that I didn’t want to go to college because I just wanted to be a mom. He commended me for that but said it would be helpful to have a fall back option if necessary. It was never to be used as an excuse not to be home or as a weapon against my husband.

    This was a difficult read for me, because I agree with your main point: that women and men are called for different things in life and women should focus on their homes and families. However, calling all women who don’t do this lazy or greedy because some of them are, isn’t fair or true and it does not speak well of God’s love for them.

  7. We are definitely spoiled in the US. However, my mother is an immigrant and she was raised in poverty, on a farm (and they didn’t own their farm, it was more of a serfdom type existence). Her mother worked the farm and took care of the children. Of course, in places like that children are actual human capital and they go to work at a young age too. They work the farms and contribute that way, or go work elsewhere and bring the money home.
    A couple of weekends ago, I went to the home of a large family who had immigrated from a poorer country. Five sons, one daughter, all grown. The father told me he woulnd’t have been able to afford a large family as easily in the US. So, his perspective was very different.

  8. esbee,

    Your Statement:

    “So if a woman loses her husband or has never married then it is ok and not a sin for her to run the man’s race by getting a job and working outside the home? Either God’s rules in this race are to be followed 100% at all times like the 7 rules you listed here or no matter what the reason, widowhood, husband’s illness or even being single, that makes her have to run the man’s race, whatever keeps a woman from following the ideal plan for a godly womanhood she is still breaking God’s rules for her life and running the man’s race.”

    Esbee – You missed the entire point of what I was arguing. God’s rules for women and working is about CHOICE. If a woman has no choice but to work(because she looses her husband, her husband is disabled or there is a true economic necessity) then the woman has not violated God’s law. God judges the thoughts and intents of the heart. A woman is to guide her home, keep her home, bear children and serve her husband. Some women in addition to these responsibilities must work outside the home.

    Also with bearing children, some women are unable to have children(like my wife) – they have no choice in the matter. God’s hold us responsible for our choices, not those things where we have no choice.

    It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity.

    If a woman CHOOSES to not dedicate herself to her home and bearing children, but rather to gave a career simply because of her own SELFISH AMBITIONS she will answer for this decision at the judgment seat of Christ.

    Your Statement:

    “Besides, we no longer live in 0 BC. Culture and times are different. There are many things woman do now that were once ascribed to men, wearing pants, ownership of property, reading and writing. When did it stop being sin for women to do those things. There are opportunities for women to go to college and have careers that did not exist until recent times…

    I found out that God does not have the same exact plan for every Christian’s life and He works within the framework of the culture.”

    Culture and times may change, but our adherence to God’s Word cannot change. Yes there are many changes God made from the Old Testament to the New Testament. The New Testament leaves behind the Sacrificial laws, priestly laws and cleanliness laws and civil laws that God gave to Israel as a theocracy. The Church is not a theocracy like Israel was, but a new group of believers from all nations.

    This is a concept that Bill Gothard’s teachings(which I am familiar with) miss. However the moral law and many other principles in the Old Testament are brought forward into the New Testament. The New Testament is God’s final revelation to us.

    You say you found out that God does not have same plan for every Christian’s life? I agree God has different plans for each of us, but we must all run the race by the same rules. He does not give us each a different set of rules to run the race by.

  9. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “Your use of Proverbs 24:27 is interesting, but as it does not specify its use for marriage, it cannot be used as definitive proof. However, even if it is talking about marriage, it also never talks about the husband not utilizing his wife in the ‘preparing of the field’. I believe it is very irresponsible for a couple to get married without a plan on how to provide for their new family, but that is not the same thing as having the husband alone being the one to provide…

    This was a difficult read for me, because I agree with your main point: that women and men are called for different things in life and women should focus on their homes and families. However, calling all women who don’t do this lazy or greedy because some of them are, isn’t fair or true and it does not speak well of God’s love for them.”

    I was actually thinking of you and some other Christian women that I know as I wrote this post. It was not meant to offend you, but I knew it might ruffle yours and other good Christian women’s feathers.

    Let me just say I think your intentions are noble and good. You have a desire to be a SAHM and to live as God would have you to. Some could debate how you are trying to get to the point of being a SAHM but I won’t do that here.

    The main target of my post was not really women such as yourself. It was women who from early age who have NO desire to be a SAHM but their plan from day one before they ever marry or conceive children is to have a career and drop their kids off at the day care center 6 weeks after they are born so they can return to their career. Caring for their children is seen as something that is beneath them and they believe that they have no more responsibility to care for their children than their husband does. They believe their career is of equal importance to their husband’s career.

    It is the choice and intent of their heart.

    Now on the issue of women going to college – I am encouraging my daughter go as well and I am not against women being educated. But that education in my view is to be channeled in the service of their husband, their children and their church. It is not so they can go have a career. But I have told my daughter if she were to meet a good Christian man before going to college or even during her first year or so of college and he she wants to quit college and marry him I would fully support that decision.

    This conversation also leads into another sticky conversation that many I have had with many friends of mine.

    Should Christian husbands have prenuptial agreements to protect themselves in case of divorce?
    Should Christian wives have careers to protect themselves in case of divorce or abandonment or disability of their husbands?
    Are these two things the same or different and if so why?

    I won’t answer those here but I am researching my positions on those issues and I will have a post on it in the future.

    Just food for thought.

    I hope that makes sense.

  10. I liked this, BGR.

    I would also mention that I think it is a mistake to discount our awards at the Bema seat. I know that I have previously felt like “as long as I make it to Heaven that will be enough” but now I think that when we get there, these rewards will be KEY and most of us will wish we would have taken it much more seriously. The “suffer loss” at the Bema seat, I think, is a terrible loss.

    We should, I believe, take obedience to the commands of Jesus VERY seriously.

  11. It is unfortunate that you cannot see my delivering a standing ovation over this article. I, myself, am struggling with convincing my adult daughter to practice being a proper wife and mother, while struggling with my wife that our daughter does not need to go to college. We have friends, good Christian friends, who have good Christian kids, who are now in a deep battle to pull their daughter out of the homosexual lifestyle she was sucked into while attending college. No longer institutions of higher learning, most modern colleges seem to be propaganda centers, filling young students heads with rebellion and socialism. Don’t subject your daughters to this, people. Women are natural followers. Once they find a dominant spirit, male or female, to latch onto, they will slowly start to take on that spirits likeness.

  12. BGR,

    Thanks for clarifying. I think that your point about a women channeling her career/education through her husband is very good. I was initially interested in being a midwife but my parents encouraged me to consider the extra years of education and the lack of flexibility the job comes with and see if that would really mesh with my dream of being a wife and mom. It didn’t, so I went back to regular nursing.

    Consider however that your daughter could finish school while being married at the same time. My parents were married at 19 and 20 and put each other through school at the beginning of their marriage. For me, it was never a case of getting a career in case my husband would abandon me (maybe I live in a fairy tale world, but that’s not been a concern for me). However, I saw my dad go through times of unemployment and knew that could happen to my husband as well. This isn’t so much for a woman to take care of herself as it is to take care of their future children as well. I could probably take care of me and my baby on a cashier salary. Probably not 4-5 kids, a house, the possibility of sports, etc. I have never viewed my career as a safety net between me and my husband. I would quit in a minute if he asked me to. It is however good to know that if my husband is unemployed for a period of time and we have a few children, that they will still be taken care of. I should also mention that my husband is the financial authority of our family including the money that I make.

  13. I think that is very sensible, Anna. 🙂
    I’m a nurse, too. My husband didn’t lose his job, but he became very disheartened and unhappy with his work and my job at the time did offer us the flexibility that I could support the family when my husband went into training for a better job.
    It all comes at a cost, though…which is important to remember.

  14. Very true, Liz. Everything comes with a cost. I am not wildly excited about leaving my baby for a day, even if he/she is with my husband. It brings me to tears sometimes actually. But I know that is where God is calling us right now. I am hoping if I work now with a good attitude, while always focusing as much as I can on my home and family, that Jesus will come through in a mighty way for us in a few years with my husband’s employment. But all I can really do is live one day at a time doing the best I can.

    I hope your husband is happier where he is now. 🙂

  15. SnapperTrx,

    I agree our colleges and universities are leading our youth astray.

    However I have heard the same argument about public schools and why we must either home school or only send our kids to Christian school. I don’t agree with that argument. My 5 children attend public school. My children have seen their faith strengthened because we talk about what they learn in school. We compare it with the Bible.

    I am not a perfect parent and I pray every day that God will keep my children on the right path. But I feel that if we as Christian parents regularly talk about issues they will face in the world, rather than sheltering them from them they will be stronger for it.

    Let me give you an example. There was some soup commercial on with two homosexual fathers playing with their son. In our home we point those things out as we watch commercials and shows and we say how wrong it is.

    When we see shows that elevate a woman’s career above her duty to take care of her children we point that out. My children regularly watch news shows on Fox and CNN and other channels and can tell you about current events.

    It really comes down to how involved as a parent that you are in your child’s life and that they feel safe talking to you.

    Unfortunately though a LOT of Christian parents leave their moral teachings to their local Church and they never talk to the kids about these real life issues. That is a huge mistake. It is our job as parents to prepare our children for the sinful world they will face and help them to understand how different the Bible’s teachings on life are from the world they will enter as adults.

  16. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “I have never viewed my career as a safety net between me and my husband. I would quit in a minute if he asked me to… I should also mention that my husband is the financial authority of our family including the money that I make.”

    AnnaMS,

    I think your nursing skills would make you an excellent midwife and I think this is something God honors. Another thing I have seen women do is get an education degree but then they stay home and homeschool their children until they are highschool age where they send them to a private school and then they go and work as a school teacher when they no longer needed at home.

    I would not be against my daughter finishing her degree after marriage if that is what her husband wants. But I would encourage her to do online courses and get her degree from home. I think couples should be having children not long after they are married. A woman’s biological clock does not agree with our modern world. Women peek at age 24 as far as fertility goes. Women who try to have children in their late 20’s and early 30’s often times have more difficulty and there are more chances of problem pregnancies.

    I am glad to hear how you submit to your husbands leadership in finances and would be willing to give up your job if he asked. Many women with your education and career would not be so willing.

  17. I’m sorry your wife was disabled in a car accident, BGR. 😦

    That was beautifully said, Anna. 🙂
    As a side note, at the last hospital I worked there was a midwife who had eight children and became a midwife after her children were grown…by the time I met her, she was close to retirement. She loved it.

    “I hope your husband is happier where he is now.”
    Yes! Thank you. 🙂 It was a difficult time but very much worth it. His stress lines and sad lines went away within a year. Folks who saw him two years later (into his next job) all said he looked ten years younger. Much better for his health, too. Life is very very good. I think it was all meant to be.

  18. Here is another thing. With women working…. Yes they may be qualified, but they take someone elses job when they find a job. Possibly a job a man could have who has a wife and could support her and their kids? More competition and quotas of women in the workforce?

  19. BGR,

    All three of my kids have attended public school, but my daughter is the only one what has graduated so far. While she was in high school we did have quite a bit of discussion about world events and the secular cultures assault on God and the Bible, and, yes, I believe this is useful in a child’s life for spiritual growth.

    Where I think problems arise is that in older days a girl would leave her fathers house directly into her husbands house, and there was proper leadership with very little gap in between. However, since the push for every woman to attend college lest she waste her ‘full potential’ you have a very long gap where leadership is sparse or, even worse, coming from secular sources.

    Maybe not so much if a young woman attends college close to her family or does so while still at home, but, as the example of our friends illustrates, sending your daughter off to college in another state where she has no family ties can lead to trouble. Without leadership by a strong male (father or husband), or without someone to hold her to a standard (family) she will find a replacement. Naturally this is not the case of all women, but it seems to be well known that women look for someone to latch on to. If that someone happens to be the campus bad boy or, in this case, a very masculine woman, they could be headed down a path of serious spiritual struggle.

    I would prefer to keep my daughter out of such situations. I may not be able to completely stop her (she is considered an adult now), but I can certainly caution her against it, and I definitely let her know what my thoughts are on the subject. I would rather her use her natural talents, musical and artistic, to earn a small income, but concentrate on learning to be a proper wife and mother. I would also rather have her live at home until she finds a proper husband, but I doubt that will be the case, since every woman in our family insists on telling her that she needs to move out and get to school.

    I continue praying and trying to teach her, but trying to inoculate her against feminist though typically brings scowls from not only the wife (who thinks I am crazy and have too much useless knowledge), but from other women as well. I am secure in the fact, however, that if I do what the Lord has called me to do, and train up my children to know who he is and what is require for their salvation, then I am doing right. The rest is up to them.

  20. This is such an encouragement! I’m on my phone because we’re having computer issues again, so I can’t write much, but just wanted to say – I was one of those women who was pushed to have a career in mind, and did, by the age of 9.

    This was so encouraging to read BGR, so beautiful to read the purposes and fulfillment for women in blessing their families.

  21. SnapperTrx,

    Your Statement:

    “Where I think problems arise is that in older days a girl would leave her fathers house directly into her husbands house, and there was proper leadership with very little gap in between. However, since the push for every woman to attend college lest she waste her ‘full potential’ you have a very long gap where leadership is sparse or, even worse, coming from secular sources.”

    I agree with you that a woman needs to stay under the authority of her father until her father gives her to her husband at which point he transfers that authority and ownership to her husband. This principle is seen throughout the Scriptures and even in non Christian cultures throughout the history of the world until the last century or so.

    This is why I have told my daughter that I prefer she go to a college that is local or do online courses. I would like her to live at home until God brings her a husband to whom I can give her away to.

  22. @AnnaMS,

    “Finally, what is supposed to happen if a women never goes to college, marries young, is well provided for, but then her husband dies in a freak accident/illness?”

    Term Life Insurance on the young husband is much cheaper that 4 years of college for the young wife. A bride to be and her father could mandate the young man purchase a Term policy before accepting his proposal to marry.

    Social Security pays benefits to the widow as long as her children are less than 16. These payments are in addition to the Term Life Insurance payments.

    Many employers offer discounted Life Insurance at work for the young husband. They also may offer a Pension and Savings Plan (401k, 403b, SIMPLE IRA) which go to the widow.

  23. True. Or you could not spend the rest of your life living off of some stranger’s money. Being responsible is a good thing. My dad was promised (in writing) a severance package if he was to be asked to resign from a certain job d/t issues with the economy. When that happened, the company said they were sorry but there were no funds available. Stuff happens. Besides, this would only potentially work out if the husband were dead. Not if he became disabled or unemployed (which lets’ be honest, are more likely scenarios).

    It’s possible to do college in a financially savvy manner. I paid off all my school debt in 6 months and I’m no textbook example. A little thinking ahead does wonders here. If people spend their time in high school saving money and studying hard, they’re likely to save up quite a bit and have impressive scholarships. If someone parties their way through high school and then gets $50,000+ in school debt obtaining an art degree, they have only themselves to blame, and that goes for both genders.

  24. @AnnaMS,

    “Not if he became disabled or unemployed (which lets’ be honest, are more likely scenarios).”

    Social Security pays Disability Benefits to young workers whom are disabled.

    Government pays Unemployment Benefits. Unemployed people usually find another job.

    No guarantees for you as a woman working. Women workers get laid off all the time. Most employers don’t care if your spouse is disabled, of if you have young children when they lay you off. I know two women who got stabbed in the back as employees by the largest, non-profit hospital in my town.

  25. Of course there’s no guarantee that a woman will remain employed all the time. But I still think showing some personal responsibility here is good. Needing to be on food stamps or welfare for a time is fine. Actively planning on not working or pursuing an education because Daddy Government will take care of you is part of the problem we have in America in the first place. I cannot condone it.

    It’s also good for at least one person in the relationship to have a career where employment is very likely. Not all careers are equally employable. As a nurse, I’m not guaranteed to always have a job available, but it’s pretty darn likely.

  26. If women are not to enter the workforce or have careers, what do we expect will happen in areas that are heavily employed by women? Imagine if no women entered nursing or teaching. An experienced nurse is quite valuable and you cannot become one by staying at home until the children are grown. Leaving my children with their father while I go to work isn’t heartbreaking. It gives the children the opportunity to understand that their father can care for the them and nurture them when I am away. And it gives my husband the opportunity to enjoy time with his children doing “man stuff” that I do not excel at such as legos or gardening.

  27. Bee,

    I agree this is another way to tackle this problem of women being provided for in the situation where they loose their husband as the provider. Term life insurance is very cheap when you are in 20’s to 30’s.

    Larry

  28. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “But I still think showing some personal responsibility here is good. Needing to be on food stamps or welfare for a time is fine. Actively planning on not working or pursuing an education because Daddy Government will take care of you is part of the problem we have in America in the first place. I cannot condone it.”

    With all due respect, I think you are falling into the trap of Feminism. The feminist trap as i mentioned in the post is that women really only have one of two choices for their provision – learn to provide for themselves or depend on the government. For a woman to be totally dependent on her husband for her provision is not an option in Feminism.

    I agree we need absolutely need to move away from our dependence on government – 100%. But the answer to that is not make women more financially independent or able to provide for themselves. The answer is to go back to the group that God made responsible for caring for widowed women and women and children who were need because of the loss of the man’ provision.

    Its called the family.

    A scriptural principle that is seen throughout the Bible is that family is to take care of family. That means if you husband were to die his next closest male relative is to take on the responsibility of providing for you. Yes that might mean families living together(perish the thought). It might mean sacrifices on all sides. But this was God’s “social safety net” from the very beginning and we have all but abandoned it today in favor of Daddy government or making women less dependent on their husband’s provision.

    God even provided a second safety net only in the case where a woman had no extended family members to provide for her and that was the Church.

  29. BGR, I absolutely believe that the church should provide for widows and orphans as they are commanded to in Scripture. Unfortunately, the church (in general) has long since lost its way on that issue and can no longer be counted on as reliable. You talk about going back to the family, but that only works if the family is in fact able and willing to take you back. If a husband is unemployed and the church doesn’t take caring for widows and orphans seriously, that hardly seems like a real solution.

    What you’re arguing about falling for the trap of feminism is a slippery slope fallacy. You are assuming since I dont’ want to be dependent on government, i must not want to be dependent on men, so i must not want to be dependent on my husband, so I must be falling for the feminist trap. However, that is not logical or–in this particular case—true.

    I would love to be totally dependent on my husband. But I recognize that what we want and what is reality are not always going to be the same thing. I have argued this whole time that I think women should have an option for a stable income in their back pocket. Ideally, as was the case for my mom who was also a nurse, it will stay there. However, like what I am currently experiencing and what Liz talked about previously, sometimes we don’t live in an ideal world.

    The only way where this could even remotely be an issue is that I have more ability to leave my husband than women that have no ability to provide for themselves. However, my husband would much prefer that I stay with him because I love him, respect my vows and God, and that we have a good marriage; rather than because I am stuck. In fact, that reeks of abusive relationships that end up nowhere good quickly.

  30. Anne,

    Your Statement:

    “If women are not to enter the workforce or have careers, what do we expect will happen in areas that are heavily employed by women? Imagine if no women entered nursing or teaching.”

    This is a great question you asked. I totally agree with you that women are far better suited to jobs like nursing and elementary school teaching. Although I would disagree that women are better suited for junior high and high school and college teaching. The reason women are better suited for elementary education then men is because of their emphatic and emotional natures which helps them to connect with young children far better than the average man.

    This same empathetic and emotional nature that most women excel over men with also makes them wonderful caregivers and that is why women make such great nurses.

    So how do we solve this dilemma? Women are needed in these fields of nursing and teaching of young children yet God calls women to make their husband’s, their children and their homes their top priority.

    The answer is that OLDER women need to occupy these positions.

    Here is an example of how this could work.

    A young woman graduates from high school by age 18. She immediately goes on every Christian dating site she can find looking for a good Christian man. This man would need to be at least 4 years older than her, maybe a little more and show that he had a home and career to provide for her needs. Then her father would bless the marriage and she is married by say age 20.

    Then she and her husband get to their duty of having children. She has a child approximately every 16 to 18 months. If she has 4 children that would make her last child born when she was about 26. During this same period from about age 18 to 30 she is taking online courses in teaching and she is also homeschooling her children. She can easily attain her teaching degree over this 10 year period. When the last child is ready for full time school she puts her remaining children in elementary school and then starts to do student teaching and then becomes a full time elementary teacher at the school her children attend.

    Now I agree with the way nursing is done(my wife was a nurse before she was disabled) that this path would be a bit more difficult, but it is possible.

    We need to change our system where women do not have to choose between their obligation to their husbands, their children and their homes and working in these very important fields where women are needed.

    The biggest changes we need are to get rid of discrimination against women being SAHM moms. That should not be negative on your resume as a woman – that should be a badge of honor. We need to make it easier for women to get training and enter the work force later in life after they have fulfilled their duties to their children in their earlier years.

    Your Statement:
    “Leaving my children with their father while I go to work isn’t heartbreaking.”

    It might not be “heartbreaking” to you but I can guarantee that if your children were infants or smaller it was heart breaking to them the first time you left them to go away for a long shift at the hospital. It was also “heartbreaking” to God if you had a choice to do that, and chose to do it anyway.

    Yes children are resilient and they will move past the heartbreak of their mother leaving them eventually – but that does not make it right or what is best for them. It is also not how God meant things to be.

    Contrary to what you think – you are and your husband are not interchangeable when it comes to caring for your small children. Yes Dads can pull this off with small children in a pinch in the same way you can eat spaghetti with a spoon if you were forced to, but a fork works much better.

  31. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “The only way where this could even remotely be an issue is that I have more ability to leave my husband than women that have no ability to provide for themselves. However, my husband would much prefer that I stay with him because I love him, respect my vows and God, and that we have a good marriage; rather than because I am stuck. In fact, that reeks of abusive relationships that end up nowhere good quickly.”

    I realize you and I will not agree on this issue and this OK, you have your strongly held beliefs and I have mine. Of course as husbands we would prefer that our wives stay with us because they love us just as God would prefer that we serve him out of love and devotion for him. But God made us dependent on him as well for our daily provision in the same way that he wants a woman to dependent on her husband for her daily provision. Our society is removing the built in dependency that women are to have on men for their provision and protection and I do not think this has bode well for our society.

    Maybe you will never act on your ability to be free of your husband because your devotion to God and to the vows you made to him. I am sure this will be the case with you. But this is not the case for many other women(Christian included) when they are financially independent of their husbands as the years go by and feelings change.

  32. BGR, I completely understand that there are tons of women who will leave their husbands when they get older because they “aren’t happy” anymore. There are also tons of men who will leave their wives and go back to cradle-robbing as well. Neither of these extreme examples should dictate how we live our lives.

    Maybe we do not mean the same thing by ‘dependent’. I think in 5 years or so if I can stop working and stay home with my child(ren), I will be financially dependent on my husband. The fact that I have my RN license in my back pocket and can return to work if necessary does not give me a desire to work nor does it make me not want to be dependent on him. However, it does mean that if my husband cannot work for whatever reason, I am able to provide for the family.

    It is interesting because you say that women in such situations can work, but what kind of salary are they really expected to bring home if the best they can land is a Wal-Mart job? Not to mention that means more hours away from their children.

    Yes, some women can act on this and leave. But if the only thing keeping them in a marriage is financial dependence, the marriage is pretty dead anyway. And there are welfare programs and what not, so if a woman really wants out, she’ll manage. Trying to trap a wife in a marriage is not the solution to not getting divorced.

  33. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “Yes, some women can act on this and leave. But if the only thing keeping them in a marriage is financial dependence, the marriage is pretty dead anyway. And there are welfare programs and what not, so if a woman really wants out, she’ll manage. Trying to trap a wife in a marriage is not the solution to not getting divorced.”

    Who said anything about trying to trap a wife in a marriage through financial dependence? I think you are missing my point. Does God trap us by wanting us to be dependent on him for our daily provision? But a woman should be dependent on her husbands provision because she is to model the Church’s dependence on God. Also when a woman is completely dependent on her husband for her provision it enables her to not have to think about those things and fully dedicate herself to the task God has given her.

    I agree with you that if the only reason a Christian woman is staying with her husband is because she is financially dependent on him that is not a good thing.
    However I don’t think a woman’s emotional attachment or love for her husband should be the only reason she is staying with her husband and this is something the world teaches is the foundation for marriage.

    Both of those things – staying only because of financial dependence or staying based on love and emotional attachment are temporary and can fall apart at any time. However as Christians the foundation of our marriage should be our commitment to God – we committed before God to be the husband or wife God has called us to be to that person.

    Emotions that flow as part of that commitment are great – but we must remember that most marriages will go through dark times, dry times when the feelings simply are not there, where we feel farther apart than closer together. But it is our commitment to God that fuels our commitment to each other.

  34. BGR,

    Than I don’t understand where we disagree. We both agree that 1: women should be at home with their children (I might even take this further than you do as I’m a massive advocate for homeschooling); and 2: that it’s fine for women to work in the absence of a husband (including death), or in his inability to provide (including temporary unemployment).

    I think that if we allow for women to work in such scenarios, we need to equip them to as well. When I work after the baby is born, it will be 3 days a week. That’s 4 days home with him/her. No way would I have that time if I needed to make the same amount of money on a cashier salary. It is good to have a career available.

    It is also good IMO to not avoid working because the government will take care of you in the form of social security, or what not. That is far from falling for a feminist trap. Not depending on the government to handle where one’s husband is unable to provide, is not the same thing as not wanting to be dependent on one’s husband.

  35. AnnaMS,

    Your Statement:

    “Than I don’t understand where we disagree. We both agree that 1: women should be at home with their children (I might even take this further than you do as I’m a massive advocate for homeschooling); and 2: that it’s fine for women to work in the absence of a husband (including death), or in his inability to provide (including temporary unemployment).

    We agree on what you have said in the above statement. But where we disagree is in this statement you made below:

    I think that if we allow for women to work in such scenarios, we need to equip them to as well.

    A young girl’s focus should be on these three things:
    Finding a godly Christian husband who has the means to provide for her.
    After marry that man getting to her duty to be fruitful and multiply(have children).
    After having children her energies are focused on these three things – the care of her husbands needs, her children’s needs and those of her home.

    If a young woman is too focused on getting a career she may or may not need if she were to loose her husband’s provision she will take away energy and focus from those three things.

    Now as I pointed out earlier, is it possible for a woman to take online courses very slowly over the course of a 10 year period as she raises her children to where she may have a degree by the time she is 30 and be able to work later in life? Yes. And there is nothing wrong with this as long as she makes sure that her education is only done in her leisure time and does not take away from her energy to devote to her husband, her children and her home.

    A woman should not take time, energy and focus off what God has called her to do(serve her husband, her children, and her home) and divert that time, energy and focus to what God has NOT called her to do – to provide for her family.

    Yes God may call her to do that in the future because of some tragedy, but she should not engage that provider role which belongs to man until God calls her into it.

    As far as your working 3 days a week as a nurse and being home 4 days with your child – I realize you can’t go back in time and change your plans and perhaps you would not even if you could because of what your father taught you.

    But what I teach my daughter and sons is very different than what your father taught you.

    I have taught her that as soon as she graduates high school at age 19(she was held back one year) that I would like her to go on every Christian dating site she can find(Eharmony, Christian mingle, ect…) to find a good Christian man that can provide for her. This is not some drudgery for my daughter, she is looking forward to marriage and motherhood and these are the central focuses of her life.

    I teach my daughter that she should not marry a man who cannot 100% provide for her on day one. If a man comes to me asking for my daughters hand in marriage I will have two primary concerns:

    1. Is he a true believer in Christ that wants to honor God with his life and would therefore be committed to my daughter in their marriage based on his faith(rather than just feelings)?

    2. Is he able to provide for her now(not sometime in the future) and does he have a good career and a home to give her on day one?

    If he does not have both of these things he will not have my blessing to marry my daughter.

    This is why I am encouraging my daughter to marry a man that will probably be 4 to 5 years older than her so that he is well established. This was the pattern of marriage throughout the Bible and history that women married men who were older and established. Women also have an easier time respecting men that are older than them.

    I also teach this principle to my sons – they have no business marrying a woman until they can completely provide for that woman. That typically means that men have to wait a bit longer to get married than women and that is OK- that is how God designed it.

  36. Ok, i get now where we disagree. And that’s fine. I still think it doesn’t make sense for a women to be put in a position suddenly where she has to provide for the family without having the proper resources to do it, but we can disagree on that. I will say that my pursuit of a nursing degree did not get in the way of my achieving my main goals of being a wife and mom. I purposefully chose to go to a Christian school and faithfully prayed (as did my parents I believe) that God would bring a Christian man into my life. He did, and I met my husband while I was pursuing my nursing degree. I wouldn’t have met him if I hadn’t gone to college. Believe me, my main goal during my college years was to find a good man. And if I never used my nursing degree at all, that would be okay.

    Please be very skeptical about online dating sites. Most eligible men in their 20’s with a home and a handsome salary are not on online dating sites. They are happily dating women they met in person. I experimented with one online dating site for a month as a dare at school (not my wisest decision). From one Christian site, I had dozens of men falling all over me from day one. You want to talk about a princess stereotype in women? Nothing like that to create one. If your daughter’s experience is at all like mine (and it will probably be even worse if she’s on more than one site), she will very soon have an over-inflated ego while not finding any real quality men.

  37. BGR

    Your statement
    “Contrary to what you think – you are and your husband are not interchangeable when it comes to caring for your small children. Yes Dads can pull this off with small children in a pinch in the same way you can eat spaghetti with a spoon if you were forced to, but a fork works much better.”

    Of course we aren’t interchangeable. That’s the whole point. it is important that our children learn that their father is fully capable in caring for them. He is, in fact, much more capable in some ways (I couldn’t build a Lego zoo if my life depended on it. And if you ask our son, I have no business making truck noises). Yes, women are likely better at nurturing, however I don’t leave my children for days at a time or even everyday. While I am gone, they play and learn with their father and that is good for them both. It also gives me quite the perspective on how difficult it is for him to leave us every day for work

    On a separate note, I am an excellent nurse. It is a gift from God that he has made quite clear in my life that i must use to be a happy, healthy, and efficient wife and mother. I would argue that it’s “heartbreaking” to God when I ignore what He has given me and directed me to do. My husband often jokes, when I am overwhelmed by house and children, that I should call work and see if they need someone for 4 hours 🙂

  38. ” I would argue that it’s “heartbreaking” to God when I ignore what He has given me and directed me to do. ”

    Anne,

    Does God talk to you? God has given me the ability and directed me to be an outdoorsman. I have neglected Him in that I didn’t go to Alaska and live in the wilderness? Ridiculous. Your statement is feminism and reeks of my wife’s statements early in our marriage. She was an executive in a very large metro firm. She couldn’t organize herself out of a cardboard box which surprised me because of her work history. I would come home to both kids crying, dinner not even started laundry sitting in the washer still, crap all over and she wanted me to “take” over because she has been working at mothering all day… WTF? Are you kidding me? After I cleaned everything up the night before and laundry plus dinner last night? God gave her the gift of gab, but absolutely no efficiency skills for the mundane days of parental life. She couldn’t focus enough on tasks that NEEDED to be done to run a house hold. These are things she needed to learn, but no one to turn to, as her mom and sisters were flaming liberal feminists. All of her friends then were flaming liberal feminists.

    As the kids got older they would tell me she was on the phone alllllll day… mother, sisters. She wasn’t doing jacks***.

    If you are married and have kids, you obey God’s command within scripture, not a “God called me to be to do what I desire”. How do you know it’s heartbreaking to God to be a helpmeet to your husband and do as Titus 2 and Proverbs 31 instructs. Those are indicative of a christian woman, not what you should be striving to do….

    Remember this ladies: It is blasphemy to give the Holy Spirit blame for sinful behavior. Saying God called you to disobey, disrespect, to be unsubmissive to your husband is blasphemy. Our pastor has called out women who have said that the Spirit or God told them to do this or that when it is the opposite of what scripture teaches. Be very careful.

  39. “But God made us dependent on him as well for our daily provision in the same way that he wants a woman to dependent on her husband for her daily provision. Our society is removing the built in dependency that women are to have on men for their provision and protection and I do not think this has bode well for our society.”

    BGR, I just heard April (the Peaceful Wife) say something on this topic on another video… she was saying that when we don’t depend on our husbands for provision and leadership, we are either in competition with them or leading in the relationship.

    She said how a man who has a wife that is competing with him, doesn’t feel those caring, protective, loving, pampering feelings toward his wife. Men don’t feel those feelings toward their competition. So when women forgo their dependence on men, they are actually saying they are “equal” (meaning same) as the man and don’t need him really. The other option he would feel from her is that she is the one leading in the relationship, which only leaves him with trying to compete with her, or with filling the feminine role of following. If she’s leading, then she’s out of his protection and he won’t have intimacy (deep intimacy where the wife actually depends on her husband the way God intended) with her that women crave so much.

    Women want that intimacy, but the only way we really feel it from our husbands (when they give it) is when we wholly depend on them to provide for our needs, don’t compete with them even subliminally, and look up to them with admiration and respect.

  40. Dragonfly,

    You are correct, but this is where women will tell other women or especially their female daughters, “they’re just intimidates because you are so confident/smart/good at….”.

    Boys or men are not impressed. Men can be intimidated by beauty but you had better be drop dead gorgeous for men to be intimidated. Most 6-8 on looks walk around like the are drop dead and its very unattractive. If you are 6-8 you can very much be gorgeous by your behavior.

    I have never ever been impressed by women who are smarter than me (which isnt very hard). I have never been impressed or intimidated by a women who finishes ahead of me in any given race. I think they sense that from men and it irritates them. You might intimidate or impress other women and a few men, but that proves the point.

    The world has falsely taught women that they can be just as imposing and it will command respect from men. It will not. At a dinner party i almost fell out of me chair when a couple were there and she is a sahm. She said she rubs her husbands feet EVERY night. She is a patient of mine and i was floored because she is mid 50s and has bad arthritis in her hands. THAT WAS IMPRESSIVE. You could see the look in the other wives faces.

    Coming home to a clean house with dinner is very impressive. I am not impressed by a female surgeon who just did a bipass heart surgery.

  41. Jeff,

    I agree that God is more impressed with the woman who gives her husband foot rubs each night and keeps his home and has dinner on the table when he comes home from his labor than with with a female surgeon who does none that but instead expects her husband to take care of her and pat her o the back when she gets home.

    It kind of reminds me of when my daughter was in 1st grade and all she wanted to do was draw pictures. So the teacher would come by to see if she had done her assigned work and she would just show her a picture she had worked on instead. The teacher would tell her “that is nice and I am sure you worked hard on it, but that was not what I assigned you to do right?”

    I believe that God will say that very same statement to may Christian women at the judgment seat of Christ.

  42. Anne,

    Your Statement:

    “On a separate note, I am an excellent nurse. It is a gift from God that he has made quite clear in my life that i must use to be a happy, healthy, and efficient wife and mother. I would argue that it’s “heartbreaking” to God when I ignore what He has given me and directed me to do.”

    I agree it is heart breaking when a woman ignores what God has given her to do – and in most cases except for where economic necessity dictates it – God has called a woman to dedicate herself full time to the service of her husband, her children and her home.

    Yes some women might be nurses at a young age out of economic necessity or the fact that they have not been able to find a husband. Yes some women might be nurses at a young age because they followed wrong advice and married a man who could not support them.

    But for a woman to choose this path knowing what God has given her to do, and the dedication he has called her to with her husband, her children and her home is truly a case of her ignoring what God has given her to do and it is truly heartbreaking.

    In fact I think if someone might be able to look at what you are doing and what many women with careers do they would a woman who sees her career as her main focus in life, it is her escape from domestic life, it is what truly gives her joy. When she gets home – the diapers, the crying baby, the work of the home, dinner and a husband who needs sex from her- this is the bane of her existence.

    They need to go to their careers so they can “re-charge their batteries” for the grueling tasks of being a wife and mother when they get home.

    I believe this is the exact OPPOSITE of the what God intended a woman’s focus and purpose to be. Instead a mother should find it grueling to leave her husband, her children and her home if he does have to work(out of economic necessity) and her yearning should be to get back to her husband, her children and her home as quickly as she can. That is where she is to find her purpose, her joy and her fulfillment.

  43. Dragonfly,

    I agree men don’t feel intimacy with their competition. If a wife feels the need to constantly compete with or dominate her husband she won’t have that sweet intimacy that she craves deep in her heart. But this is the lie that feminism has sold to women.

    As I say often on this blog – God created marriage to model the relationship between God and his people. When we as God’s people express us our utter dependence on God for his daily blessings and his help and strength this is when our fellowship with him is the sweetest. But when we think we can do it on our own and that we don’t really need God for our daily provision and guidance this is when we often times can feel the furthest from God.

    It really is something for us all to consider. All of us need to depend on God(both men and women) and women should depend on their men as well and show them the same respect and appreciation they show God for his provision and protection. This is what God has designed them to do in this life and this is where they will find blessing and peace – if they will only humble themselves and do what God has asked of them.

  44. Unfortunately Anne, my wife is now suffering the consequences of her lack of efficiency and action of the last 20 years. I let her do ALL the work due to the fact that she MADE me TRY to EARN sex by DOING all of those things which not only should she have been trying to do, but should have been doing. Now she is EARNING my respect by DOING ALL of those things PLUS having sex. Please do not confuse this for me not doing anything or being harsh and cruel. I tell her how much I appreciate her, etc. I have never complained about any meal including the ones the kids wouldn’t eat or even she wouldn’t eat.

    Anne,

    I did I mention I met my wife in med school? Yes, she graduated and is licensed. God gave her the gift and desire to help others and she has never practiced. The day our first was born she stopped her delusional thinking of being able to do it all. She thought maybe she could if she had a helpmeet…. me, but she knew that God made building a home was more important than a career. Did you get that last part? She knew…. not felt. Cognitively she knew and made a decision, underline the word knew.

    I treat 40 people a day and I am more impressed by the sahm that home schools, looks nice and her kids are articulate and social than by the career woman who drives up in a volvo and just got back from a week in Mexico on the beach. If she can do those things, why would a man bother to give them to her and why would she appreciate him sacrificing his time, money and energy when she can do it too.

    Want to impress me? Help me raise a Godly family in an age of Sodom and Gomorah. Help me stay out of debt, help me so that when I am purely exhausted at the end of the week, I can come home to my castle, put up my feet and turn into a vegetable just long enough to recover and do it again next week. Help me by doing what you can and then some, not leaving the things you can do for me to do later because you grocery shopped (oh my how daunting). You can leave the hot dirty stuff because I like doing them, but don’t nag me because I want to watch Hell Boy for the 20th time…. it makes me laugh. Don’t use your body language or facial expressions to shame me into acting busy like you when you walk around acting busy… I’m not impressed because you picked up a sock in the middle of the hallway that the dog dragged out of the laundry basket.

    Yes your days mush be monotonous, but aren’t everyone’s once you realize they feel trapped?

  45. Jeff,

    Your Statement:

    “You can leave the hot dirty stuff because I like doing them, but don’t nag me because I want to watch Hell Boy for the 20th time…. it makes me laugh.”

    And here I thought I was the only one who liked Hell Boy! I too have watched it probably 20 times. Only one of my boys shares my love it(both movies).

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