When I make the bold claim, which I will support with the Bible, that career women are a failures in the sight of God I am not talking about women who are forced to work to feed their families. I am not talking about the women who tried for years without success to find a husband and simply needed to support themselves. I am not talking about women whose husband’s became disabled, died or abandoned them. In other words, I am not talking about women who did not choose to have to have a career outside the home.
I am talking about women who planned on it from the time they were teenagers.
For these women their dream was their career. And they may or may not have wanted a husband and some kids to go on the side with that career. These are the women that are utter and colossal failures in the sight of their creator whether they realize it now or not. And one day they will stand before God ashamed of the fact that they did not fulfill the purpose for which he created them.
In Galatians 1:10 the Bible says “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ”. This Biblical principle should be at the forefront of our minds as Christians each and every day in the decisions we make.
Recently a young woman calling herself Shary wrote me about her concerns about being seen as a failure in the eyes of her family:
“Can’t God use certain women through their careers for His will. For example I’m going to be a freshman college student starting this fall (with the intention of becoming a doctor) after taking a gap year to work. I feel conflicted because over the past several months I have been reading your blog and you write a lot that women should strive to be keepers at home. I would like to get married and have children, but at the same time I feel like I need to go to school or else I’ll just be a huge disappointment to my family. I don’t know if this is because I’ve been conditioned to think this way all my life or for some other reason, I just feel that if I don’t go to school and become a doctor I’d be a failure.”
My Response to Shary And Other Women Facing this Conflict
Shary, you asked if God can use women through their careers for “his will”? The last part of that question is the key to finding the answer to your question. So how do we know God’s will for women? For that we need to look to the Bible.
The Bible tells us for what purpose he created women in Genesis 2:18 when it states “And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him”. So, we learn from Genesis 2 that God created woman as companion and helper suitable for man. The only way she could be suitable to be man’s life companion and helper was for her to have a human nature as he had. That is why God took the woman from the man.
But what kind of companion and helper did God intend for woman to be for man? Was she intended to be his equal partner and for both of them to do the same things and go and pursue their own missions?
The answer is found in Titus 2:4-5 where the Bible states “That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed”.
God created woman not as an equal partner with man to have equal rights and to pursue a career outside the home as he does. But rather, the Scriptures are explicit on this that God intended for a woman’s life focus to be on serving the needs of her husband, her children and her home.
What About the Proverbs 31 Wife?
Some Christians who want to try and get around God’s explicit command for women to be keepers at home will attempt to skirt it by pointing to passages like Proverbs 31:16 which states “She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard”. They say “See – there is a career woman in the Bible! She is a land developer”.
As Bible believing Christians, we know that the Scriptures never contradict. So, we know that there is no conflict between the Bible saying in Titus 2:5 that women are to be keepers at home and Proverbs 31:16 showing a woman buying a piece of land and farming it for food. Those who say Proverbs 31 shows a career woman are reading something into the text that is not there and also ignoring the overall theme in the passage that the focus of her life is serving her husband and his home. Does it say she spends 50 or 60 hours a week buying and farming fields? No, it does not. It says she buys “a field”. Does it say she does not bring her children to help farm the field with her? No, it does not. Does it say she leaves her children with her maidens to watch them while she pursues her career in farming? Again, no it does not.
Those who read a career woman into Proverbs 31, a woman who spends upwards of 50 hours a week pouring her energy into things outside her home, are in error. They are ignoring not only the clear command of Titus 2:5 for women to be keepers at home, but also other parts of the same passage in Proverbs 31, like verse 27 which states “She looketh well to the ways of her household…”.
It is Impossible to be a Keeper at Home and a Keeper at a Career
It is impossible, utterly impossible, for a woman to be a keeper at home and at the same time spend 50 hours a week or more giving her energy to things outside her home.
Feminism sells women this lie. And sadly, even most of our modern churches today have bought this lie. They tell women they can spend 50 hours a week outside their home “following their dreams” while having a husband and kids on the side at home. What they don’t tell them is what really happens.
They don’t tell them about the anguish many of these women feel when they have to leave their young infants with others when they know an infant needs its mother. They don’t tell them about the anguish they will feel when their home is in utter disarray because they have such little energy to keep up with it. They don’t tell them about the fights they will have with their husband over who does what. They don’t tell them about when her career moves conflict with his career. And then after handling the job, the house and the kids many career women have little energy left for their husbands. And then marriages die.
Of course, there are the women who are “without natural affection” as 2 Timothy 3:3 alludes to. These women actually care more about themselves than their children or husbands. These are the women that murder their children by aborting them for the sake of their career ambitions. If these women do have children, they have absolutely no problem dropping off their crying infants with others to pursue their selfish ambitions. They have no problem donating the vast majority of their waking hours to endeavors outside their home and giving only the scraps left of their time to their children and their husbands.
And these women are a “success” in the view of our modern humanist and feminist culture.
So, we just described two types of women. The first group are women who after believing the lies of feminism later come to feel remorse for the decisions that they made. But now they are trapped because they have made their economic situation dependent on their income. Then we have the second group of more sinister women who lack natural affection and have absolutely no remorse for the impact that there career takes on their husbands, their children or their homes.
Are you one of these women that lacks natural affection? Could you drop your two-month-old infant off without it bothering you a bit? Could you see the stress your career places on your home, your children and your husband and be happy with giving them only the scraps left of your time and energy each day?
But there is something even more important to consider than just the impacts of a career on your future husband, children and home.
The Scriptures tell us in 1 Corinthians 11:9 “Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man”.
The following statement I make to women who are not keepers at home by their own choice and design, and not because of circumstances outside of their control.
If you as a woman are not a keeper at home (and you have no desire to be so), if the majority of your time and energy are not spent supporting your husband in his career, meeting his needs sexual and otherwise, bearing his children, caring for his children and caring for the needs of his home then your life will be a failure in the sight of the one who created you.
So, are you as a woman more concerned with being seen as a failure in the eyes of our humanist culture, your parents and friends or are you more concerned with being a failure in the eyes of God?
The last subject I want to briefly touch on is celibacy.
God’s rule for men and women is marriage and having children. His exception his celibacy. And God only calls us to celibacy “that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction” (I Corinthians 7:35). Celibacy is to be used for service to the kingdom of God, not for selfish ambitions or to avoid the risks or responsibilities of marriage and having children.
So, could a woman decide to dedicate her life to God by helping on mission fields or by being a doctor, a nurse, a school teacher or other such profession? Yes. But she needs to make sure that she is doing this for the right reasons.
See these two articles I previously wrote for more these subjects:
For what reasons does God allow celibacy?
Why does God make some women with a genius level IQ if he wants all women to be homemakers?
38 thoughts on “Career Women Are Failures in the Sight of God”
That’s a really good post with a lot of truth that the world and worldly churchgoers won’t like. It really needs to be proclaimed to everyone for their own benefit. Thank you for proclaiming this message boldly.
Bravo! My mother in law was a big influence for me. She was a huge believer in higher education but thought women should only Pursue traditional female roles like nurses or teachers. She didn’t want women taking male spots in college just to say they were accepted than to only graduate and never use the degree because they decided to have a family and stay home and realize that’s their God given role.
God made us to live in relationship. Not only is not good that man should be alone, but even God is not alone. There are three persons in the God-head in relationship with one another. Women were specifically created to live in relationship with a man. To deny this design is as foolish as denying gravity. Scripture is our ethical standard, but If we look to general revelation to support that ethic we will find:
Career women make up the largest set of child murderers, ie abortion.
And the cold destruction of life destroys the soul of a nation, not to mention the millions lost in the genocide. The degree of wickedness that is abortion can not be overstated. That women think of it as safeguarding their career and as a right is prima facie that feminism is satanic. That is not a hyperbole!
Career women delay marriage, but still have sexual longings. Instead of committing to a husband they most often choose to fornicate until the biological clock has just about run out, The myriad of social consequences of delayed marriage are profound and negative,
Career women generally do not seek to become helpmeets, but seek a helpmeet for their own. This inversion of marriage roles has never sustained a civilization in human history. Divorce and dissatisfaction are fruits of this role denial.
Career women gladly find security and protection from the government while eschewing such from a husband. This increases the size and scope of government which interns decreases liberty and increases government intrusion.
Career women make lousy mothers and outsourced nurturing is a dystopian vision of childhood.
Career women have never built a civilization or defended it from invaders. They cherry-pick their careers leaving the dangerous, dirty and physically demanding jobs to men, most of them would refuse to date because they are beneath their social-economic standing.
Yes, it is impossible. I am the family homemaker. I also homeschool. I also do much of the small home repairs, and all of the gardening. On top of that I run the family business (with no pay) which we are building up to pass on to our children. And to add butter to the bread, I work part time outside the home (hubby’s request). It is exhausting, stressful, and nothing gets done to its fullest. Give me good-old-fashioned homemaking any day.
And you are one of the women I spoke of, that works not by choice, but by necessity. Your heart is to fully give yourself to the affairs of your home, your children and your husband.
I pray God will give you grace and give you strength each day.
Career women make lousy mothers
Social shame is going to be key in turning this boat around. Whether or not they admit it, no woman wants to be labeled a lousy mother. They have the same aversion to it that men have of being called a coward, because deep down they know it’s their #1 job. We need to make career woman synonymous with lousy mother.
“We’re so proud of Amanda! She got herself a degree and a good job at XYZ Corp! She has an apartment and bought her own car! She’s so independent!”
“Yeah, but she’s going to be a lousy mother.”
Women like these complain about not being able to find “economically compatible” men, and yet ignore the fact that they themselves are occupying the jobs they want their men to have.
I know of a young woman who has the opposite problem. She wants to marry a missionary because she has a heart for mission. But she complains all the local boys want is a homemaker wife. They are not interested in preaching the gospel or helping the poor at all. They would rather sit on the couch on weekends, watching the football!
I believe a woman’s first call is not to her biology but to Jesus Christ. A Christian woman is a new creation, a fellow heir of life. Sadly, finding a man on fire for Jesus who will treasure her faith is like striking gold. I sympathise with this woman’s problem.
“I believe a woman’s first call is not to her biology but to Jesus Christ” – With respect, you are painting a false dichotomy. What is “her biology”? It is a reference to her having children. What was God’s first command to mankind(both man and woman) in the garden? “And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it…”(Genesis 1:28). So essentially what you are saying is “I believe a woman’s first call is not to follow Jesus Christ’s first command to humanity in the garden but to Jesus Christ”. When we remember that Jesus Christ was God, then we recognize the first command to humanity given in the garden was given by Jesus Christ as well. Following Christ’s commands, is putting Christ first.
Having said that, do I think it is wrong for a Christian woman to have heart to marry a pastor, evangelist or missionary? Absolutely not! And these men need wives to accompanying them and help them in ministry especially in ministering to women and children. She just needs to know how and where to look. If my daughter had a burden from God to marry a Pastor, evangelist or missionary do you know what I would do? Send her to a very conservative bible preaching college that is known for having strong programs for pastors, missionaries and evangelists. And then she could find a very good chance of finding a man going into ministry to help.
But I would not expect her to have find a guy down the street for this. Because only certain men are called to these kinds of full time ministries. The fact is most studies reveal that only 5 percent of people find the person they will marry in their local church. That vast majority find them either through dating sites(40 percent), and then family or friend connections or college or university.
@AGuy, serving Christ first as a married woman is adhereing to the very biology He created. Service to the Lord outside of His created biology means not marrying. This is why Catholicism has a choice: consecrated marriage to Christ in religious life, or sacramental marriage with the intention of having children.
This statement reeks of Gnostic dualism.
Because a woman’s “first call” is to Christ she is obligated to live according to His design, His law and His Word. His design is that women “be discreet, chaste, keepers at home good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.” Titus 2:5. If a woman has compassion and a heart for missions then it might be an unequal yoking to marry a man with his focus set on a CPA career or maybe she just needs to grow up. Accounting, although not my calling, is obedience to the dominion mandate as much as farming, engineering or carpentry. But mission work is no more spiritual and no more kingdom building than being a wife and mother. IOW’s – the mundane is often the more spiritual and there is no escape from biblical ethics by works of the flesh, no matter how much we think the superstars of the faith are missionaries. Some probably are and some probably not. In God’s economy the humble things are exalted, and least is the greatest. A man “on fire for Christ” is not just missionaries and pastors, but more often is the husband who loves his wife, raises his children in the Lord, prays fervently, works diligently and worships humbly. A woman who is looking to have her faith treasured, just might have an exalted view of her faith. It sounds like a work of the flesh and not the gift from God to an undeserving sinner. She would do better if she were humble enough to have faith in her husband’s spiritual leadership, submitting to him as unto Christ. She also should grapple with the idea that the woman was made for man and not the man for the woman. Looking for someone to complete her is backwards, she should be looking for a man that she can complete. This is how she finds contentment in Christ, by heading His call and doing what He said. Raising a godly seed is one of the highest callings on Earth. A woman who is a helper to her husband and a mother who nurtures, homeschools and worships with her children is in God’s eyes worth more than rubies.
I always wanted to be a missionary from the moment I got saved. I sincerely believed the Lord was calling me to missions. I had every plan on going to a bible college, marrying a man who wanted to go into missions, and diving right in. But that is not what happened. My dad got sick, I stayed home, met a guy my dad approved of, and married him. Perhaps this young woman you know of can benefit from hearing this part of my testimony. I believe that my marriage will work out for good. I love the Lord, my husband loves the Lord, and he does his best to lead us in the Lord. If I was truly called to missions, God will call my husband to missions. Until then, I view my husband, lord willing future children, family, and neighbors as my mission field, to be a blessing to them and to encourage them in Christ, as well as witness at the grocery store, shopping mall, and etc. I think a lot of people get caught up with missions needing to be some sort of thing that happens far, far away. But that is not the case.
Furthermore, I would encourage her to look elsewhere for a husband. Like BGR said, if she’s dead set on missions, she should go to a conservative Bible college, though she should know the odds of actually getting on the mission field are not a guarantee, and nearly half of all missionaries come back home within a few years. She shouldn’t marry a husband with the intention of being a missionary, because if he makes the decision that they are going back home, for whatever reason, she will put up a fight, and probably not be too happy. She shouldn’t be marrying a man because she wants him to be able to be something that she wants him to be. Her submission to her husband is counted as her submission to the Lord. Honestly, it sounds a bit off to me. Perhaps she is expecting perfection, but she will wind up never being married because no man is perfect, and yet, we are still called to respect and submit to him. Just my thoughts, from a woman who is married to a man very much so not in missions, when she always thought the Lord would bring her to the mission field.
Re: “With respect, you are painting a false dichotomy. What is “her biology”? It is a reference to her having children.”
Not a false dichotamy but a fundemental consideration because a Christian woman should get married first to have children! And that marriage must be “in the Lord”. Thus my post is the central issue for young Christian women hoping to fulfill their maternal instincts.
Both Jesus and Paul said some very challenging things about the nature of marriage so it’s not to be entered into lightly. Who her head will be will impact her ability to express her love for Jesus. That is a fact. Take care young ladies!
Re: “serving Christ first as a married woman is adhereing to the very biology He created… marriage to Christ in religious life, or sacramental marriage”
Concerning the will of God v biology, I refer you to 1 Cor 7:36
“But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. 37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.”
Of course we would rather follow Western culture than fatherhood, because the feminists who know so much about marriage tell us so… little wonder we have a divorce rate exactly the same as the culture.
There are also not enough men in most churches for “sacamental [monogous] marriage” of all the women who desire children unfortunately. So that means we can either have rampant fornication or unequally yoke our young women to non Christian men contrary to scripture and her faith. Once again, we need to rethink just blindly following the culture on marriage.
And l won’t even start on the topic concerning the dearth of “suitable Christian husbands” in the limited pool of Christian men…
RE: “I believe that my marriage will work out for good. I love the Lord, my husband loves the Lord, and he does his best to lead us in the Lord. If I was truly called to missions, God will call my husband to missions. ”
Must have been a tough choice that only you could make. But since your husband loves the Lord you have married well indeed. My advice to young men and women is if they work in the gospel as God calls them they will find their spouse in the gospel. God will cause their paths to cross because he’s awesome that way (and every other way). The story of Issac and Rebecca shows how amazing God-incidences can be. I have seen this happen. The woman is presently on the mission field with her father’s blessing with people he trusts helping orphans and widows in a third world country. I believe she is being faithful as you were faithful in your circumstances.
Jonadab-the-Rechabite: Who are you to judge the servant of another? The woman is wise to carefully consider since she is going to be “bound to the husband while he lives”. It’s not to the point whether engineering glories God, for engineers, accountants and other professions are sorely needed in missions anyway. The point is she has a heart for evangelism, she is always talking to people about Jesus in a most natural way, and if she has a gift from God she would do well to seek the Lord for a husband with a compatable heart. More to the point, her father agrees. Therefore she is doing nothing wrong.
Not to mention that Bible never mentions nuns, monks, or popes.
There is plenty of spiritual work needed here at home. You don’t need to travel to be a missionary. Just buy a bunch of gospel tracts, and drop them off wherever you go, like say, in gas-station bathroom stalls, or among the shelves at your supermarket.
Guy – no one is here is saying Christian women should run out and marry the first guy they find. I have spoken about this extensively that Christian women should seek out godly Christian men, and also to do this under the guidance of their father and marry with his blessing to godly men. That is God’s ideal situation for women. Of course some women don’t have fathers at all, or perhaps their fathers are wicked men and then in these cases they should seek out other godly men like grandfathers or uncles or perhaps the pastor at their church to help them in finding a husband. Your wording was unclear and it seemed that you were putting her other ambitions ahead of her primary purpose to have children and be a keeper in the home. Putting Christ first for a woman means following Christ’s commands. If she is not called to a celibate life in undistracted service to him, then she is called marriage(and yes marriage in the Lord of course that is obvious). As I said before, can she attempt to find a man who is going to be a Pastor, missionary or evangelist? Sure. That is an honorable life goal for a woman. But as has been pointed out, sometimes mission field work does not work and sometimes the husband ends up doing other things. But the woman should never loose focus of the fact that when she marries – her prime directive in life is to serve the needs of her husband, her children and her home. The home will always be a woman’s greatest mission field.
In regard to your statement:
“There are also not enough men in most churches for “sacamental [monogous] marriage” of all the women who desire children unfortunately. So that means we can either have rampant fornication or unequally yoke our young women to non Christian men contrary to scripture and her faith. Once again, we need to rethink just blindly following the culture on marriage.
And l won’t even start on the topic concerning the dearth of “suitable Christian husbands” in the limited pool of Christian men…”
This is common refrain of good Christian women as well as feminist Christian women alike – “Where have all the good men gone?”
And the answer is that churches have chased off good Christian men over several decades by failing to teach women their purpose in being created for man, to serve men as their wives, the mothers of their children and the keepers of the home. And the utter failure to teach women submission both in the church and in the home.
Men are creatures of duty. They want to do what they were designed to do – which is to lead, provide for and protect women. But the vast majority of women will not let men lead them as well as be their provider and protector.
There are good men that seek godly women. They simply must search for one another. Jesus said “seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you” in Matthew 7:7. If you are not making a concerted effort to finding a godly spouse, but rather waiting for one to fall into your lap, you most likely will never find one. So yes Christian men and women should be involved in their churches but also realize that only 5 percent of people meet their spouse in their local church today. That is a fact. The vast majority meet their spouse through online dating services, and then secondly through family and friends connections.
I don’t believe there is any conflict in a wonan putting Jesus first and submitting to her husband. In fact I believe putting Jesus first is the only way a woman can submit to a husband who tries to put Jesus first. Because in his ignorant zeal and inexperience he is going to make some really stupid mistakes and she will share the cost of those. I’m speaking of myself of course,
Winning him without a word by her good conduct when he is disobedient takes the kind of faith, hope and love that only the Spirit can supply her. I have seen a woman walk this walk with an unbelieving husband even when he forbade her go to Church and she did win him over by her good conduct to change his mind. The amazing thing is she genuinely loved him doing it too, had compassion on his weaknesses including his drinking. As a teenager I was inspired by her example of Christ within the hope of glory. She showed us all!
The need for marriage is a bodily desire, coming from the first Adam, Since then we have had the covenant of Noah, Abraham, David and the all-new “I will put my Spirit in them” covenant in Jesus Christ, the second Adam. That title “second Adam” shoud tip us off that more things are now afoot than the physical realities of bodlly needs alone. The framework has expanded with a new creation in Christ Jesus in both male and female.
So when someone asked me how I felt about a fine young man getting married I replied I was glad for him because he had found a wonderfully suitable bride and was getting it over with. I know that sounds callous but the problem that it’s not good for a man to be alone was making his walk in the Lord more difficult since he had a high libido. But as Paul says, a husband’s desire to please his wife competes with his desire to please the Lord (1 Cor 7:33). The will of the second Adam sometimes conflicts with the wife of the first, so sometimes a man must say no to his wife to make some space to serve the Lord in other ways too.
That is why the woman I was talking about previously is so precious. She is the kind of woman who will follow a crazy-brave on fire for Jesus young man across the Himilayan mountains with kids in tow without a second thought. It would be such a waste for the Kingdom of God if that kind of woman marries a Christian couch potato – sorry there’s just no defending them. So I am minded to encourage her to wait.
I do agree that God will bring people together as they obey him and their authorities. My mom asked me to stay home to help with my dad. She didn’t tell me to or demand it. But I know right at that moment, it was the right thing for me to do, and the Lord would work it out. And He did. I am not in a mission field far away, but here at home, and I am happy and content in that.
I would also be a wife willing to go anywhere with kids in tow on the mission field. But the truth is, all women should be willing to do that. Really, all men should be willing to do that, IF that is what they are called to do. Whether you are serving God in the jungles of Brazil, or in the heart of New York, or even to those around you at home, there is no position elevated over the other. Serving God at home is just as important as serving God in the Himalayans. I do hope it will all work out for her.
Guy, you are doubling down on Gnosticism with a touch of misandry and a sprinkling of feminism.
By bodily desire I assume you mean the desire for sex. First marriage is much more than sex, second sex is not merely a bodily desire. It is the Lord’s means of making two one, which in turn is a type of union with Christ. Sex is a physical, emotional and spiritual activity. It is Holy! To relegated it to a bodily desire is to embrace a dualism that seeks to separate the physical and spiritual reality. That Gnostic dualism ultimately ends up separating the two natures of Christ, I’m not saying you have gone that far, but that is where such thinking leads. A high libido ought to be gratefully accepted as a gift from God to draw a man and woman into union and celebrate the oneness that is typified. It is not a deterrent to spirituality, but used Biblically a means to spirituality. The kingdom is built through righteous sex.
“It would be such a waste for the Kingdom of God if that kind of woman marries a Christian couch potato.” How is it a waste for a wife to sanctify her husband and children? I don’t see where in scripture God hints that such might be a misallocation of His resources. Like the feminists you place a paltry value in the work of nurturing and homemaking; on the role of a housewife. It seems missionary work is of higher value in your estimation than homemaking, much like the feminist place a higher value on a career than on being a mother. It is degrading to those who humbly choose the serve the Lord by raising a Godly seed. Further describing a husband as a “Christian couch potato” is degrading to men. Just because a man is not called to the mission field or professional “ministry” is in no way a devaluation of his kingdom contribution. In your own words, “who are you to judge?”
After reading your posts it seems to me that a woman who is not willing to follow her husband into a life as “House-wife” is unsuited to be a missionary’s wife. The destruction her pride and feminism could bring unto new Christians could be devastating and bear bitter fruit. Better to serve the lord humbly at home first than with ambition and pride afar.
You are one of the willing few and have also found a husband who loves the Lord. How blessed you are! My hope exactly for the woman concerned.
I agree the Father seeks those who will serve Him in Spirit and in truth not on Mount Sameria or Jerusalem per se. For a woman’s gender forms NO PART of her spirit (Gal 3:28) and only part of the truth. So a Christian woman is not defined by gender but by Christ who is all in all (Col 3:11). She has the right to be called a son of God, a direct offspring of the Father. But in this present tent, gender subsists, so I say she is sister in Christ first, wife second:
“Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?” I Cor 9:4-5
“You have ravished my heart, my sister, my bride. You have ravished my heart with one of your eyes, with one chain of your neck.” – Song of Soloman 4:9
Therefore I fear the Father how I treat my sister-wife because I know he’s watching, and the fear of the Lord is clean.
First, what Jonadab has just said to you in his last comment pretty much mirrors my own thinking to your comments. I have felt the Gnosticism from your comments from the beginning. 1 Corinthians 11:7-9 states:
The male human body is not evil. The desire of the masculine human nature are not evil. In fact they are the opposite of evil. Out of all God’s creations, it is the male human being, which “IS the image and glory of God”. It is only the corruption of the man’s God given desires that are evil. And let’s review the Biblical concept of the “desire of the flesh”:
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)
“Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
When the Scriptures exhort us to walk in the spirit and not fulfill the the desires of the flesh it is NOT referring to the God given human biological and psychological desires and needs of the human body. Human beings, whether they are babies, teens or adults need human contact. We need to be around other humans. We need human touch, we need to hug and hold one another. We desire and need food and water. In fact the Bible says that we can bring glory to God simply in the act of eating and drinking “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31).
We desire sex because God designed us to. It is therefore a holy and righteous desire. Many of these God given desires mirror spiritual truths as Jonadab has alluded to. In other words, we can learn from certain human needs and desires more about the nature of God, because man was created in the image of God.
When the Bible exhorts us to walk in the spirit and not fulfill the desires of the flesh it is not telling us to ignore the desires and needs of our bodies. It is telling us not to follow after our sinful desires. It is the corruption of our bodily desires that are sinful, not our bodily desires as God originally designed them.
I can say based upon the Word of God that it brings glory to God when I am aroused by the sight or smell of my favorite food and eat it. When a woman desires to make herself beautiful it brings honor and glory to God because he designed her to make herself beautiful for man. And when a man sees that beautiful woman and takes pleasure from the sight of her beauty, that too brings honor and glory to God because his desire for and arousal at the sight of her beauty images God’s desire for the beauty of wife(Psalm 45:11). When a man desires to sexually indwell a woman and take pleasure in her he pictures God’s desire to take pleasure in his people(Psalm 149:4).
The Scriptures tell us in 2 Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new”. The argument you are making is that the old things that have passed away should be the desires that God gave man and woman in the garden before sin. As if man’s need for female companionship is a weakness, and not the very design of God. What has become new is that we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within us. We have been regenerated(if we believe). We can now recognize the evil desires of our flesh(our sin nature) in a way we never could before through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And the Spirit day by day renews are our thinking toward the original way God made man and woman to be before sin entered the picture and corrupted the masculine and feminine human natures.
Guy – I exhort you, do not look down upon the image of God which is reflected in the needs and desire of the masculine human nature and his plan in woman to make her desires help create a beautiful picture of the relationship between Christ and his Church.
Jonadab-the-Rechabite: I will answer your charges of Gnosticism, misandry and feminism if you answer me this:
In John’s first letter, writing to those who have an anointing from the Holy One and know all things, he says:
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”
Yet later in the same letter he says:
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”.
If you knew this, you would not have said those things about what I say.
@Guy. I do not accept your diversion down the rabbit hole. You may address the stated points or not. But if you stipulate a challenge to be satisfied first, then I guess you can save your apologetic for someone who will dance to your tune.
Jeus told Nicodemus in John 3 something like this: That which is born of spirit is spirit. That which is born of flesh is flesh. Do not marvel I say you must be born again/from above. That is the one born of God which cannot sin, the part of every Christian in them now that lives forever. Nevertheless, until the ressurection, sin indwells our members, so that what we want to do we do not do and that which we don’t want to do that we do. Hence both of John’s statements are true!
Paul cries, “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” And the glorious answer is in Romans 8.
The deliverence of “me” in Paul’s question is his soul. So our spirit is saved sealing us with the Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 6:17), our souls are being saved as with humility we receive the word implanted (James 1:21), and our bodies will be saved on the last day when we will be clothed with a glorious spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44). Man is tripartate like God, and and woman is tripartite like man, and the lord will preserve both to save each spirit soul and body in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (1Thes 5:23). So from glory to glory, we are being conformed to the image of His Son, and not the image of Adam (1Cor 5:13-15) whose corruption we are escawith humility receive the word emplantedping.
Suffice to say, Paul says “I consider no man in the flesh any longer” and this includes women as I have previously commented. Sister first, wife second, I’ve given you chapter and verse. For Christ dwells no less in a woman than a man. The treasure is in a weaker vessel yet the treasure is of the same value. And by weaker I don’t mean inferior, I mean beautiful fine china Christian men must protect. So husbands love your wives and Christ loves the church and gave himself up for her, and the wife should see to it that she respect her husband,
Guy, you mention verses that talk about man, and apply them to woman. I can’t help but feel that that is a wrong, as in other places of the Bible, man and woman are treated and viewed in very different ways. So how do you know the same doesn’t apply to the verses you grasp at?
Jonadab, yes, these days, it seems these days that having a high libido is a curse, not a blessing.
Sorry Rick, I mis-phrased 2 Cor 5:16-17. The “he” in the text was only put in for readability. Here it is from Youngs:
“So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more; so that if any one [is] in Christ — [he is] a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things”
That’s male and female, no question.
As far as libido goes, if my wife is clothed I am quite a sensible fellow but if not her presence quickly intoxicates me so I can’t think straight, as it’s supposed to. However that pleasure isn’t what defines either me or her, it’s Christ in us, the hope of glory.
So while the Adamic covenant is still in operation, with all its tragic consequences too, married life in Christ is much more. For example, I required my wife to accompany me on business conference trips and arranged the children to be cared for by relatives. She’s a great travelling companion and occasionally she would help me in my work. I’m sure this would have been fine even under the Adamic covenant.
So I have several problems with the statement “Career Women Are Failures in the Sight of God”. First, it’s not our job to judge the world (1 Cor 5:12, John 3:17). Second, the statement if true is too harsh: God loves career women and can open their hearts – Lydia “Seller of Purple” (not wife/widow/daughter of…) in Acts for example, immediately blessed Paul on his mission. Third, the quote from Titus 5 is not a law. Reading the whole passage reveals it’s a teaching point given to Titus to teach, one among many. A teaching point to be put in context with the whole councel of God, which I’m sure as Paul’s protégé Titus would have done.
That said, it’s true the world has lied to women that they can “have it all”, and most Western Christian women don’t submit to their husbands even occasionally even when they think they do. For submission is to seek the other person’s will, not merely defer to him as the last resort because it’s required (Hebrews 10:8-9). So for me it’s a complex discussion and one to be had. Thanks for putting up with me Larry! And you also Jonadab-the-Rechabite…
Hey, biblicalgenderroles, ever thought of occasionally reviewing “Biblical movies” here?
This discussion in the comments has caused me to recall the 2013 movie, The Book of Esther, and I honestly think you’d have quite a bit to say about that one. 🙂
Yes, it’s just a matter of time. I have done a couple reviews like on Unplanned movie and on Fireproof movie. I and my family watch A LOT of movies and TV shows. I could review TV and movies full time. Just have to balance it all. Thanks for the reminder. I have a few projects I am finishing up and then I might do some more reviews.
You have attempted here to make the simple complex. 2 Corinthians 5:16-17 does not say God has canceled out the masculine and feminine human natures he designed in the garden of Eden anymore than the favorite verse of Christian feminists Galatians 3:28 cancels them out. The Biblical “nuke” which destroys your arguments as well as those of Christian feminists is 1 Corinthians 11:3-10:
When explaining why women should wear head coverings for prayer and prophecy, the Apostle gives us divine commentary on the Genesis account. The two vessels(male and female) are a picture that God created from the beginning. And this divine picture that the male and female vessels show, the relationship between God and his people, is not canceled with the coming of Christ, but rather the differences between them and the reasons for their roles are more clearly explained in the New Testament.
In Ephesians 5:22-29 we see God further explain his divine design for the two male and female vessels he created:
The male vessel was created to image God and thereby bring him glory. The male images God in his masculine human attributes, when he leads, provides for and protects along with his many other male attributes. Woman was created for man and for his glory. She was created as the weaker vessel to need his strength, his leadership, his provision and his protection to picture mankind’s need of God’s leadership, provision and protection.
That is something simple enough, that even a child can understand this.
Yes the Bible talks about us as Christians being conformed to the image of Christ. But this is in reference to Christ’s obedience to his father and his holiness. Our being conformed to the image of Christ does not in any way cancel out the special spiritual purpose for which God created the male and female human vessels. God created these two vessels to paint the special picture of the relationship between God and mankind.
As far as your reference to Lydia, the seller of purple in the Bible. Does the Bible say she was a married and had children with someone watching them while she sold purple far away from them in some market place? Does it say she sold it out of her home with her children? Does it say she became a seller of purple as a young woman after becoming a Christian and that Paul encouraged her to pursue this career? The answer is that the Bible says none of these things. I made it clear at the intro to this article that I was not referring to women who had no choice to work to support their families. The point of this article was to say that young women, before marriage, should NOT plan to NOT be keepers in the home.
And contrary to your assertions otherwise, Titus 2:3-5 is in fact a command. It is a commanded that women be taught to be keepers in the home. This may not fit with the lifestyle you have chosen for you and your wife. But regardless it is the Word of God.
May I ask, how do “quote someone” on this site?
My husband and I have been married for a year yesterday. I work at a nice job because he asked me to. I work from 8 to 5, help lead some women’s Bible studies on Wednesday nights, am pretty active in my church, and more. But I am exhausted. I work, come home, clean, take care of the dog, and more. I would LOVE to be home and take care of it (and our future children) as God intended. But that is not what hubby wants right now.
My question is … is it sinful if I ask him for help cleaning? We share cooking duty as he really loves to cook, but I often come home and clean and tidy up and he plays his video games. But is it a sin for me to ask him to help?
I don’t think it is a sin to ask for help in a humble way recognizing your position as his helper. But to ask in a demanding way would be sinful. If he says no, then God calls on you gracefully care for the duties of the home.
I agree with BGR that it is not a sin to ask for help. The problem is that if he says no, or he agrees to help but doesn’t follow through, then you may be setting yourself up for unmet expectations, which could turn into seething resentment over time. You don’t want it to turn into a situation where you are nagging him to do something that he doesn’t want to do. If I understand the situation correctly, it’s not really help with the housework that you’re wanting anyway. Your desire is to quit your job and be at home full time. So even if your husband helped you with the housework, you still wouldn’t be satisfied with the situation.
If you feel that you are doing too much and you are exhausted, then do less. I doubt that your husband is a slave driver because most men are not. We women tend to do this to ourselves. We take on too much because we find it difficult to say no. We don’t want to disappoint anyone. And we don’t want to appear lazy. But now you are trying to deal with this by passing on some of it to your husband. You didn’t mention what kind of work he does, or if he works long hours, or a stressful or physically demanding job. Maybe he is playing video games when he gets home because he is exhausted as well.
Maybe you could talk to him about your exhaustive schedule and see what can be done about it. Maybe take on fewer responsibilities at church. Or see if you can cut down to part time at work. Or next time you see your husband playing a video game, that should be your cue to sit down and play with him, or watch TV, read a book or magazine, do a puzzle, go for a run, a bike ride, or do some yoga… you get the idea. If you need to rest, then stop and rest. Don’t feel like you have to be constantly doing something. There’s only two of you right now, no kids, so it shouldn’t be that difficult to keep the home clean.
If your husband complains that the house is not clean enough then apologize and explain to him that you are too tired from working full time to do more, and maybe he’ll be ok with your cutting back at work or even quitting. Don’t have an attitude about it, but be honest about your needs. You mentioned that for now he wants you to work. What is the time frame on that? Is he saving up for something? Are you having to work until you pay off a student loan or some other debt that you accrued before marriage? When does he want to start a family? How many kids? Does he expect you to work throughout your pregnancy? Does he expect you to return to work after having a child, and if so when? After six weeks, twelve weeks, when the child goes off to Kindergarten? Does he know that you expect to stay home after having kids, and does he agree with this? These are all things that should have been discussed before you got married. Because you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.
If your values, goals, and desires don’t line up with his, you’re going to have to just suck it up and conform to him because that is what marriage is for a woman. We have to be the ones to conform. If your husband were just sitting around playing video games while you work yourself to exhaustion, then he is not honoring you as the weaker vessel, and maybe BGR has some suggestions on how to resolve that sort of issue, but I doubt that is what is really going on here. Your husband probably has no idea that you are struggling, so talk to him about it. But do it respectfully. A really good book that might be helpful to you is The Surrendered Wife by Laura Doyle. She has some good advice on how to approach these kinds of situations. I hope this helps. Good luck.
I am a 32 year old Fashion Designer, in fact one of the most successful in my city. I am deeply rooted with my faith and come from pastoral and missionary family. My parents are also very supportive of my career but never came across that being career chasing woman is wrong in the sight of God. I have knowledge that wives should be submissive to their husbands but never crossed my mind with career wise. Guess I haven’t read my bible enough. Reading your article opened my eyes in a new light.
My husband and i have been married for 2.5 years. We haven’t have kids but are trying. My husband is into space and furniture design, which i am also very interested in. However due to my career, i am not able to help him much. I’ve had career success since i was 23 so i am doing better than my husband, sometimes which creates pressure. Besides that he does support me very much in what i do and we are very happy with each other. But I want him to be more successful than me and provide for me incase i am unable to work or have children. I feel like he needs my help with work but dropping my career is so difficult at this point because of the clienteles we have built, workers depending on me and of course more stable income.
I love my husband and really feel like he’s struggling and needs my help on the other hand there is so much on my plate as well. I really need some advice from Christian/biblical point of view.
I have had many women over the years write me with similar stories to yours. Years after being in their careers they find the Biblical truth that God wants women to be keepers at home, and to rely on their husband’s provision as picture of the church relying on Christ for his provision. But making the change does not happen over night, nor is it easy. Many of these women had to continue to work for a couple years to get the family into a position where the husband could be the sole provider for family. Often that meant selling a larger home, to move into a smaller one in a cheaper area. It sometimes meant getting rid of new car payments and moving to used cars. It can be done. But it needs to something that your husband plans out.
Of course there are husbands who do not believe it is wrong for their wife to have a career and share the load of financially supporting the family, and in that case if your husband does not want to let you be a full time keeper at home, you need to follow his lead.