A Christian Young Man’s Guide to Life and Finding A Wife in a Post-Feminist World

Recently I received the following email from a young Christian man which ended in a challenge from him to me.

“Dear BGR, I am a 17-year-old male who will be graduating high school in this next year.  I have attended a Bible preaching Baptist church for all of my life. I was taught both at my church and in the public schools I have attended that women being given equal rights with men was and still continues to be a good thing for society.   My parents are conservatives and I have considered myself a conservative for a long as I can remember.  Like many conservatives, I believed that equal rights for women was good thing.  But this is no longer the case for me.

Because of your blog I have had my “cultural blinders” as you call them removed.   

I did not make the connection between the rise of feminism in the mid-1800s and the rampant sexual immorality, divorce, abortion and problems with LGBTQ that we face today until I read your blog.  I cannot believe how blind I was and how blind the adults around me still are to this connection.

I love how deep you dive into the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures and how you base everything you believe on the Bible, the whole Bible and not just the parts people like.  I also love how you dissect and tear apart liberal, socialist and secularist arguments against the Bible.   With that said I have a favor to ask you or maybe more of a challenge for you.

Can you write a simple list, like a step by step list, of how young Christian men like me who have had our eyes opened to the evils that feminism has brought on our society can navigate this Post-Feminist world and live in a way that honors God and his design of gender roles?  And here will be the hardest part for you – can you do it in 1000 words or less? I just know that a lot people my age don’t have the attention span that I do and I think if you made it short, they might just listen.

Jonathan”

Jonathan – challenge excepted.

Step 1 – Know Your Purpose in Life

God created you to be “the image and glory of God” and he created woman to be “the glory of man” (I Corinthians 11:7).  This means you were created as a man to display or live out God’s attributes in your life’s work outside the home and as a husband and father in your home.

Companionship, sex and having children are all benefits of marriage and commanded by God in marriage but they are not the reason for marriage.

Ephesians 5:23-24 tell us “the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church” and “as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing”. It also tells us in Ephesians 5:25 that husbands are to love their wives “even as Christ also loved the church”.  It is “for this cause” (Ephesians 5:31), the cause of picturing the relationship between God and his people, that we are to seek and enter into marriage.

Step 2 – Read Your Bible from Genesis to Revelation

You cannot be the kind of spiritual leader and teacher to your future home that God has called you to be without becoming a student of his Word (2 Timothy 2:15, 1 Corinthians 14:35, Ephesians 6:4).

Step 3 – Keep Sexual Relations for Marriage

The only sexual relations that God calls “honorable” (Hebrews 13:4) is that which occurs within marriage between a man and woman. When you have sex with a woman before entering into a covenant of marriage with her you pervert God’s design for man, woman, marriage and sex.

Step 4 – Build Your Career First, Then Seek A Wife

In Proverbs 24:27 we read “Prepare thy work without, and make it fit for thyself in the field; and afterwards build thine house”.  Build your career first, then get build a home and family.  In Ephesians 5:29 we read that husbands have a responsibility to nourish or provide for the physical needs of their wives “even as the Lord the church”.  A man’s ability to provide for his future wife and children is a critical aspect of him picturing the relationship of God to his people in marriage. No man should ever even begin to seek marriage until he is fully prepared to be a provider for his future wife and children.

Step 5 – Look for A Woman Who Knows Her Purpose

Just as you must know your purpose in God’s creation as a man, so too you should seek out a woman who fully embraces her purpose in God’s creation as well.

“4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.”

Titus 2:4-5 (KJV)

The women you seek should fully embrace the teaching found in the passage above.  No part of it should be uncomfortable for them.

Step 6 – Avoid Sexual Temptation While Waiting on Marriage

Some men may be able to provide for a family and therefore can marry in their late teens or early twenties because they enter a lucrative skilled trade or family business.  Others may have to wait till their late twenties or early thirties after they finish college and then spend several years in their career before making enough to be the provider God has called them to be.  A good example of those who would have to wait much longer are doctors and lawyers as it takes them almost a full decade to be firmly established in their careers.

So how does God want you to handle your unmet, yet God given sexual desires during this waiting phase of your life?  The answer is one word and it is an uncomfortable word for some while others have been taught it is a sin.  And that word is masturbation.

The scriptures condemn lust, not masturbation.  And then we must understand how the Bible defines lust verses how we define it today.  Romans 7:7 teaches us that lust is not mere sexual arousal or sexual fantasy, but it is in fact covetousness as defined in the 10th commandment. It is not a sin for you as a young man to be sexually aroused by or even have sexual fantasies about women.  It is not even a sin for you to masturbate to such thoughts or images.

Lust, in the Biblical sense, is when you think about or desire to entice a woman into having sex with you outside of marriage.  So, you don’t have to suppress your sexual nature until you are married, but rather you must exercise it within the bounds of God’s law.  And a big part of avoiding sexual temptation before marriage is to set a boundary for yourself that you will never be alone with a woman that is not your wife or your blood relative.

Step 7 – Be Diligent in Your Search for A Wife

Jesus said in Matthew 7:7 “seek, and ye shall find”.  You cannot hope to find a wife by simply sitting around and waiting for one to fall from the sky.  40 percent of couples who married in 2017 met online.  Use all resources at your disposal and do not limit your search to only your local area, but look nationally and globally. And yes, if you look outside your local area it will require a lot more money for travel. So, start saving.  Concentrate your efforts on rural areas as urban areas are often filled with women who don’t follow God’s purpose for their lives.

Step 8 – Do not Date but Instead Court

Dating leads to relationships based on emotion rather than compatibility.  The Courtship process helps protect a couple from the temptation to have premarital sex while at the same time allowing parents the ability to offer an objective analysis of the compatibility of the couple.

63 thoughts on “A Christian Young Man’s Guide to Life and Finding A Wife in a Post-Feminist World

  1. great article bgr – the only thing I would add is PRAY. Pray daily that the Lord provisions a beautiful sweet Godly wife. Pray for a wife you can bless and for a wife who will bless you. Trust in Him that He will do it.

  2. Easier said than done. It still won’t protect you from your wife one day deciding you’re nothing and taking you to divorce court and cleaners. Women regardless of their religious acclaim/ supposed affiliation, can at any time decide treat you like toxic waste, but a financial slave, and trust me you’ll have no recourse whatsoever and feel the most useless, used and helpless in your entire life. Don’t be deceived by their initial , and extended pretense till they lock you down.

  3. Regarding a man being able to provide for a wife and family before he marries. This seems unreasonable. Many successful Christian couples marry while the husband is young (mid 20s), and still progressing in his career but not fully there yet. And prior to the 20th century marriages happened young, when the woman was maybe 18 and the man 20. Certainly not when he was at his peak earning years. I don’t think this point can be considered a requirement for a man seeking marriage.

  4. I don’t think we should be encouraging men to marry later in life. This causes infertility problems in women, and sexual sin in men. I believe that for Christian couples marrying in their mid 20s is ideal for our modern world. Obviously, I agree that men should have a career path before they marry. But waiting until they are established is too long. My wife and I remember with fondest our early years when we had no money! Those were some of the best years, and we’re going on 34 years married. Actually I think no money in the early years of marriage strengthens the bond, if both partners are true Christians.

  5. Abolt,
    First – In regard to the other message you sent me, I must approve all comments manually before they appear, unless I approve you as a regular commenter as I have some people.
    Second – It is not unreasonable to expect a man to provide for his wife before taking one. This was the expectation of men throughout the history of the world, yet all of sudden in our modern world somehow this is now impossible? I think not. It is only because of our expectations regarding standards of living and all the materialism we see around us that we think this way. And I think many Christian couples could marry by their mid 20s if the man starts in a skilled trade or family business position. He could easily be making 50 or 60K a year which is enough to raise a family outside of the urban areas. And if a man insists on living in inflated urban area where homes or apartments cost 400K or more than that his decision to wait much longer on marriage.
    What you are saying is that when a man marries he does not have to model Christ in all aspects as leader, protector and PROVIDER. He can leave off the PROVIDER aspect of modeling Christ and his Church. I respectfully disagree. The purpose of marriage is not simply to avoid sexual temptation, have companionship and have children. Read Ephesians 5:23-33. The cause for which we are to seek and enter marriage is clear there – it is to model the relationship of Christ and the Church. And a husband who purposefully goes into a marriage knowing he cannot fully provide for his wife, knowing he will have to tell her she cannot follow God’s directive for her to be a keeper at home, is not honoring God’s purpose for marriage.

  6. Abolt,
    In regard to your statement:

    “I don’t think we should be encouraging men to marry later in life. This causes infertility problems in women, and sexual sin in men.”

    I agree that women should be married by or before their mid 20’s ad it causes infertility problems for them. A woman’s fertility peeks and then drops after her mid 20s’ That is women who marry in their late 20s and early 30s often have to go to fertility doctors. But this was not addressed to women, this guide was addressed to men. And men certainly do not have to marry women their same age. It would be perfectly fine for a man who is 25 to marry a woman who is 20 or man who is 30 to marry a woman who is 20. This has been done for the history of the world and only today in our modern age do we think a couple has to be within a couple years of one another in age. They do not have to be.
    But as for men – they are still very fertile in their late 20s and 30s.
    Also again – I think many men could marry by their mid-20s as you suggest if they go into the skilled trades or family businesses and they could be making a decent living to support a family before age 25.
    As to the issue of avoiding sexual sin for men. I addressed that as well in this guide. STAY AWAY FROM WOMEN. Do not be alone with women – make that commitment to yourself and your family so they can keep you accountable. And yes masturbation is absolutely an option for relieving sexual tension as I mentioned in this guide.
    Regarding your statement:

    “My wife and I remember with fondest our early years when we had no money! Those were some of the best years, and we’re going on 34 years married. Actually I think no money in the early years of marriage strengthens the bond, if both partners are true Christians.”

    Perhaps you and I are not so far apart on this. I never said a man has to be rich to marry. Being poor by the world’s standards is just fine as long as he can provide the basic necessities of life, like housing, food and clothing so that his wife can be a keeper in the home as the Scriptures exhort and not have to be away from the home all the time as a co-provider with him than I have no issue with that. The point is not that he has to be a lavish provider, but if he can provide the basic necessities of life and has a career track to do better for providing for children in the not too distant future than there is no problem.

  7. I don’t think we’re far apart on this. But I just am uncomfortable with the “build your career first “. So long as a man has a career path, even if he’s not near his peak earning years, I would never counsel a good Christian couple not to marry, and I definitely don’t think it’s a sin to do so. Obviously if the guy just lives in his parents basement playing video games then of course not. As a father I would do anything I could to prevent my daughter from marrying a man like that. I have a daughter and a son who both married at 22 and 25 respectively. And neither my son nor son in law are at anywhere near their peak earning years. And both my daughter and daughter in law have jobs now. But neither plan on working when they have children. As you said, couples don’t have to be close in age, but I think that’s more common. In fact, I would have reservations if my 22 year old daughter wanted to marry a 35 year old man. Just seems unusual to me. The proverbial May-December marriage is not common or normal. I agree with everything you said except maybe I would clarify the career part a bit. And regarding sex I agree with the masturbation idea, but it doesn’t always work out that way for men. Paul said “it was better to marry than burn with passion “, he didn’t say just go and Masturbate. As you spell out well elsewhere on your blog, men are VERY attracted to women, so men will be tempted beyond masturbation to satisfy their desires. Hence, it is better to marry.

    PS: loved your article on head coverings!!

  8. Anm1
    Sadly, the more I pray, the more lonely and depressed I get. All I get are rejections and false accusations.

    Oh, and sorry for the double-post, this site has a crummy comments section; no matter how many times I log in, the site forgets who I am after 1 second.

  9. Abolt
    I totally agree. Building your house first causes all the gold-diggers to come out of the woodwork looking for a house to steal.

    If she didn’t want me when I was starting anew, why should I want her once I am at my highest?

  10. Abolt, as for the age gaps, it becomes worse as I get older.

    By the time I was 23, I had already been falsely accused twice of being “an old creep” because people keep overestimating my age, thanks to my vocabulary, my deep, booming voice, and facial hair growth.

    And at 25, the police were sicced on me by a “Christian” girl and her “Christian” father. And the ONLY thing I did was try to initiate a courtship with her.

    And they think that an age gap is “improper”, that I “should marry a girl my own age”. Riddle me this, at my current age of 27, does anyone really think that I have a chance to find a woman who is Christian, attractive, AND a virgin the same age?

  11. Rick, I hadn’t thought about the gold diggers angle. Good point! However, I’m confused about your experience with police. At 27 you’re still young. And even with a full beard that should be apparent. Having the police called on you leads me to think something else was going on. That’s just not a normal dating/courting experience. Maybe you should get some courting coaching. Not at all trying to be critical because obviously I have no idea what happened. But that’s just not common, and raises red flags for me?

  12. Abolt, To be fair, after a several-minute discussion, even the police were on my side.

    They thankfully saw the truth that I was an innocent, young, naive bachelor, and acknowledged that she had emotional/mental issues, and that they will turn their backs and forget about the whole report, and as long as I never went to see her again.

    I was in the clear, but that experience shook me to the foundations; and then I would later learn that I was just one of MANY who’ve been falsely accused. Haven’t really approached any girl since, let alone a “Christian” like her.

    P.S. Another lesson I learned, certain advice told to me by my elders is certainly outdated; girls do NOT like poetry anymore; they take metaphors literally, and claim “objectification”.

    P.P.S., if you wish to know more, where can I reach you in private?

  13. biblicalgenderroles, your step 1 makes no sense.
    Are you saying that marriage is a purely symbolic thing, with no other purpose?

    Let’s see,
    Companionship: I can get from my platonic, (male), friends.

    Sex/sexual-release: I am ONLY allowed to have that in marriage.

    Children: Goes hand-in-hand with the sex part. I can’t have the kids without sex. (Don’t bring up adoption).

    Without the latter two, there literally seems to be no point in marrying at all, let alone in this day-and-age. A waste of time, effort, and in the male’s case, money, it would be otherwise.

  14. The bible says that it is better to marry than to burn with passion, so a valid reason to get married is that you desire sex. This is unsurprising as God built this desire into a man to encourage him to seek out a wife.

    I am not questioning what you are saying about praying Rick, but praying should leave you feeling closer to God and putting more faith in Him.
    Another thought is that depending on the situation, it might be worthwhile to approach the dad and ask him about courting his daughter. I’m not sure how you went about it, but it sounds like it was just a bad situation. Those are out there.

    I wouldn’t let it deter you from proceeding.

    There are some fathers out there who seem to think that their daughter is never going to grow up and be a woman. There are some people out there who seem to think that keeping a woman from a man is somehow the noble and right thing to do. I’ve even seen this in Christian programs where they will essentially keep women so much away from men that the women will grow old and never marry “because she might be abused otherwise”.

    Doing this is of course the very definition of ab-use because she was designed to be a husband’s help meet. They are “saving” the women from something they say. Well, the bible says those who forbid marriage are evil.
    You need to look for a singles group at a church, I think a lot of churches have these. Make it know that you are looking for a wife and see what comes of it. If not much, move on to another one.

    I know I said it already, but I wouldn’t give up on prayer or God. He is always working things for good for those who love Him. Brother keep looking! Don’t give up. Don’t fall into a depression about it; this is what the enemy wants – inaction and stagnation. If you don’t live where there are options to meet young women who are looking for marriage, move to someplace where there are more options. I hear you that today’s environment is very discouraging, but God is still in His holy place.

  15. Rick, welcome to the club. Im older than you by 6 years, and was engaged at one point a couple of years back, but I ended that when I saw who the girl I spent almost 3 years of my life with turned out to be, and I couldn’t walk her down the isle since she wasn’t willing to change from her sinful ways. That was the hardest thing but the best thing I ever did because God worked through that and through me when I broke it off with her.

    My current situation is me still trying to land a good paying job, and in the process of trying to get out of where I live atm. I feel that i’ve been in a holding pattern for a couple of years and know thats about to change, but ive grown a lot in that time while ive been reading this blog and seeing where God wants me to go in his timing. You just gotta take things one day at a time. The best advice I’ve finally seem to understand is not to get down on yourself or beat yourself up; its the first things guys do but should be the last thing we should do. I’m getting better on giving all my thoughts and feelings to God in order to give me peace on situations and let him handle it in his will, and that gives me the best amount of peace. This blog has helped me get more focused on the word on things I’v never been taught or shown before in my Christian walk, and im very grateful for that.

  16. Guys, Interesting reading your situations. I’m not sure where BGR stand on this, but I truly think that most churches give very poor advice on marriage and courting, especially when it comes to men. They have basically bought into feminism, and the Christian young women are steeped in it. That’s why BGR is so good. He tells the truth. I would also highly recommend each of you reading the book The Rational Male, by Rollo Tomassi. It’s not a christian book by any means. He talks a lot about promiscuity, which of course we as Christians are against. HOWEVER, if you read the book and think of ATTRACTION wherever he talks about sex, it will work for a Christian. But mainly, you will learn the true “ways of women”, that you will never learn in the church. And that knowledge is power for you in your future courting of women. Some of it is tough to swallow, because it goes against everything you’ve been taught. However, the “ways of women” are not Christian nor unchristian. They just ARE! Do it. It will change your courting life, and all your dealings with women!

  17. For all you guys bemoaning your life and saying ‘it can’t be done’ … let me just say, yes it can. I married an awesome Christian girl in my early 30’s after I had gotten some traction in my own life and career. She was still an undergrad at the time, and nope, she wasn’t ugly, brainwashed, stupid, or otherwise flawed. She just wanted a man, not a boy, and recognized the value in a guy who was established and not playing games, who could provide her what she ultimately wanted, to be a stay at home mom.

    How’d we meet? Through friends/family affiliated with church. How did I make the transition to courting? I talked to her dad and once I had permission to approach, to her. Did I jump through hoops? Many! It was a couple years before we could date alone, and strictly hands-off until after the wedding. I attended countless family reunions, family dinners, and knew her folks better than my own before I glimpsed any uh-uh.

    My advice? A) get your act together – accomplish something in your 20s worth writing home about. Save a boatload of cash, make rank in the services, learn a trade, get a masters degree, get ripped. Preferably several of these things. Do some things to maximize your value. B) get involved, authentically – don’t be fake. Go to church and just be present and attend for awhile. Don’t start creeping on the first tight pair of jeans that walks by. Get to know the old men and the old ladies. Be involved. Over time, you will be introduced to the single ladies who might be a match by those who know the landscape. Don’t be the tool who parachutes into church and tries to cold-game the hottest-looking babes in the joint C) finally, and this is important, know thyself. Some of you are fives who refuse to consider other fives, and some of you are eights who think anyone seven-up is ‘out of your league’. There’s no such thing. Swing for the fences, but also, stop being so shallow that you miss the diamond in the rough.

    ‘The girls round here, they all deserve a whistle.’

    K, just my two-centavos. Good luck guys.

  18. Rick, my husband was in his late 20s when he met me, a virgin, serious in pursuit of traditional marriage. We’re 2 decades into this, now, and stronger than ever. Lots of sex, lots of kids.

  19. Thanks Abolt.

    And one qualifier I just thought of… my post isn’t saying you SHOULD wait until you’re in your thirties. If you catch a unicorn at 22 and she’s the one, marry her and work like a dog to provide for her. Unicorns are rare – don’t pass on one just because someone says you’re ‘too young’, but do ask older, wiser men, and you’re friends, if they see her the same way you do. Young men struggle to remove lust from the equation. Other guys can help you see past your hormones.

    If you are in your 20s and it’s just not happening, don’t freak out though, and settle for a mediocre relationship. Just be on mission, and focus on building your own value. This will serve you well in the future, and ironically, increase your attractiveness to higher quality girls right now.

    It’s like the NBA draft – freshmen get drafted in potential. Seniors get drafted on results. So IF you’re still ‘on the market’ in your 30s or even 40s, quality women in their 20s and early 30s are absolutely still available, but they’ll want to see that you’ve already realized your potential.

    If you’ve got a dead end job, debt, a belly and you’re single past your twenties, well, you’re probably going to either fix yourself like it’s an emergency (it is), or start lowering your standards to find some similarly accepting of their own mediocrity.

  20. Rick,

    Respectfully, my step one makes perfect sense if we believe the Bible to be the Word of God. The purpose of our lives as men and the purpose of seeking marriage as men is to image God or display his attributes as husband and father.
    Now practically speaking – God gives us burning and yearning for marriage(and that is sexually based for us men) so that we will come together and fulfill the purpose for which he made marriage.

    I agree with you that a sexless marriage is not God’s design and you are right we can find companionship with other male friends. But if sex is your only reasoning for marrying a girl – you are going to get into big trouble. Too many men, even Christian men, have thought too much with their “little head” and not enough with their “big head”. You cannot be so desperate for sex that you will marry any woman to get it.

    I am not saying it is wrong that sex is a driving force for men – because if we are honest it is huge driving force. But it cannot be the only driving force. We must channel that desire and control it. I have often equated our sexual desire to water in a river. Water is beautiful when the flow is controlled and kept in the boundaries of the river. But when it overruns its banks and floods the nearby homes it is no longer beautiful but instead if causes despair and disaster.

  21. Rick,

    I want to add one more thing to what I just said. While the larger purpose of marriage was meant to symbolize the relationship between God and his people – God also chose to use this relationship to as source of companionship, pleasure and producing children. So I do not deny those practical aspects.

    The problem is we have many Christian teachers today and secular teachers who teach that marriage is ONLY about companionship, pleasure and producing children and they totally miss the larger spiritual picture and purpose for which God designed marriage.

  22. zeonicfreak,

    Thank you for your kind words. And I agree there is a huge gap in the churches today as far as teaching men about how to go about seeking a wife according to God’s standards. Men are just left to wander around aimlessly looking for a “date” just hoping some woman will say yes without really thinking about what they should be looking for in a wife, and how they should go about courting and when they should do this in relation to be prepared for marriage. There is absolutely no planning and no teaching solid Biblical teaching on this. By God’s grace I am trying to stand in the gap and give men the advice from the Bible that is sorely lacking today.

    And one of the things I was trying to drive home in this guide is what you have said here. You are not a failure if you are not married by 30. If you know you have been trying with your job situation and looking for the right woman that is what counts. Don’t give up and don’t beat yourself up. Just have a plan and execute it and it might take years to find the right one but never stop trying.

  23. Abolt,

    In regard to your statement:

    “I’m not sure where BGR stand on this, but I truly think that most churches give very poor advice on marriage and courting, especially when it comes to men. They have basically bought into feminism, and the Christian young women are steeped in it.”

    I agree 100% with you statement. And this is why God placed it on my heart to start this ministry, to stand in this gap.

    In regard to your statement:

    “I would also highly recommend each of you reading the book The Rational Male, by Rollo Tomassi. It’s not a christian book by any means. He talks a lot about promiscuity, which of course we as Christians are against. HOWEVER, if you read the book and think of ATTRACTION wherever he talks about sex, it will work for a Christian.”

    I do believe there is some truth in teachings of Rollo Tomassi, but it is like my pastor says “You need to chew up the meat and spit out the bones” as Rollo is no approaching this from a Christian perspective, but rather from a secular perspective. At some point I would like to do a compare and contrast between Rollo’s Red Pill teachings and the Bible to show were they agree and disagree on male/female relationships.

    But where he is right is about men needing to show confidence(frame teachings) and not do the “Mr. Nice Guy” thing that so many men do to try and attract women.

    He and I have conversed a bit and where he and I have major disagreements is about sex outside of marriage(he is fine with it – I am not) and he believes that sex cannot be based in duty because it then becomes “transactional” and he disagrees with me on a husband disciplining his wife for sexual denial by taking away financial things as this makes sex “transactional” as well. For him the only way a man should have sex with a woman is she truly desires it – so that is where he teaches men how to try evoke that desire in women by using things like frame, game and dread to evoke that desire.

    I actually am not against using things like frame or dread to evoke desire, but I also do not think a woman having sex from a sense of duty and the husband accepting it is wrong either. He thinks that is very wrong.

  24. BGR, I agree with you about Rollo. And I think your “review “ of Red Pill thinking would be a good thing. And obviously I agree about your statement about sex outside of marriage. But I can say that I have Two women devout Christians, including my wife, read his first book. They didn’t like it at all, but had to finally agree that it was true. Women ARE like he describes. Period. It’s not right or wrong. It just IS. If men in the church only knew it, they would not fall into the beta crap that the church teaches. The church is a veritable Beta factory! But it doesn’t work. That’s why so many Christian men do everything they’re taught to do, but their wives divorce them eventually. Men over the Millennia knew this ( maybe only subconsciously), but that’s why their marriages lasted! The Bible is Patriarchal from start to finish, but Christian men are taught this “servant leader” crap in the church. Dalrock blog teaches it from a Christian perspective, but it’s essentially the same thing. I found both Dalrock and Rollo life changing, and I’m 56 years old and married 34 years. I only wish I knew what they teach when I was in my 20s. Every Christian man should read BGR, Dalrock, and Rollo!! Finally, regarding “transactional sex”, sure it’ll work. But I don’t think it’s ideal, and it’s better to create the Alpha desire by far.

  25. I agree that there is nothing wrong with being an Alpha and fostering Alpha desire, but there is nothing wrong with a women being taught what is right and she does have a responsibility to submit to her husband in everything. Both are good. No matter how strong your Alpha is, there will always be that time when she isn’t feeling like it – that is when you will need her to know truth and do what is right despite her feelings.

  26. Rick,
    Why do you ask?

    I’m around 40, and my wife is in her 20s. I chose “Old Soul” because I feel like my diverse life experiences have given me an old man’s perspective at a relatively young age. I don’t want to get too specific and get ‘doxxed’ by some anonymous hater, because I try to provide real value to other men online by giving my unvarnished opinion (much like BGR does).

    But I’ll tell you, I actually did practice what I’m preaching above, and it has all worked out, with some grace and luck mixed in with the hard work on squaring myself away.

    BGR – I love the comment about chewing the meat and spitting out the bone on the red pill teachings online. There’s some stuff there that’s solid gold for the mama’s boy church betas out there, but it’s mixed in with a lot of self-pity and loathing from lost boys who struggle to create real emotional bonds with women. Proceed with caution, and compare with Scripture.

  27. Thanks for the encouragement BGR. Interesting enough I started to really read your blog 2 years ago right before I broke things off with my fiancee, and between reading your articles and strengthening in my own walk its come a really long way, im very grateful. I may not see entirely eye to eye with everything you talk about, but its answered questions i’ve had about the church and christianity over many years that people always had some kind of BS/contradiction answers too when I thought about things, mainly when it comes to sexual nature.

    The churches ive gone too over the years have treated sexual desire is a sin or made men like me feel like crap for having them. Knowing what I know now from how you explain scripture I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago, could’ve saved myself years of self doubting on how God made me. From your articles such as this one, this has been putting in my mind the desires to seek out what God wants in man in finding a spouse and having a stable career to support a family. God knows my heart and knows where I need to go, so i’m just waiting on him for the opportunities and doors to be open for me to make that happen. After my ex, I feel even more picky on finding the right girl, and I just feel that I wanna know when I see her that she’s “the one” God has for me. So that’s kinda where i’m at in life at the moment, and its only for a season, which I feel that it will end soon.

  28. Anm1, are you suggesting that if your wife isn’t in the mood on occasion, that you should force your will upon her? That’s not being Alpha. That’s being a bully. The idea of a husband asserting his marital rights is when his wife is using denial of sex as a weapon, or just lost interest and isn’t willing to accommodate her husband for an extended period of time. All women on occasion are not in the mood. Forcing your husbandly rights is just being a jerk and selfish, in my opinion. And my wife and I have a great sex life.

  29. Old Soul, Actually most of your original post was very Red Pill advice, which is why I liked it. Sure, we have to be discerning about such things, “like spitting the bones out” but I stand by my statement that all christian men could greatly benefit from Rollo, and Dalrock, along with BGR of course. The fact that some men in the “Manosphere” are damaged is true. Many have been burned by women in divorce, etc. But really no different from some of the comments guys have said here. I sense some “damage”….

  30. Old Soul,
    You practice what you preach… before I go any further, you say that she’s in her 20’s… so how long have you been married?

  31. Abolt,
    Sure, don’t misunderstand. I’m not trying to shame or vilify red pill guys. Some are bitter for very good reasons. It’s just risky to take advice from someone who’s bitter and apply it to a fresh, healthy relationship with a quality women. I don’t believe AWALT… and I do believe unicorns exist. Because I married one.

    Rick,
    She was old enough to get married. I’ll let you guess at the exact numbers. Let’s say the better part of a decade.

  32. >Anm1, are you suggesting that if your wife isn’t in the mood on occasion,
    >that you should force your will upon her?
    No, that is not what I am talking about at all. I am talking about a wife who has been washed in the word and knows her responsibilities towards her husband. A wife can not be in the mood and still fully yield her body to her husband because he needs it and she knows it is the right thing to do. That is what I am talking about. Now, if she refuses, I would see that as a serious sin that would need to be addressed.
    It seems to me that the manosphere direction is to manipulate or trick a woman, because she is somehow incapable of having any responsibility or understanding or the ability to choose to do what is right. I’m not saying that a man shouldn’t do all the things they can to be attractive, alpha, manly, etc., but I think the biblical way is truth. A wife should understand what marriage is and is not according to the Word and she should understand what 1 cor 7 says about requiring a mutual agreement to abstain. I think sex should be great for both. At the end of the day though, if a husband needs his wife, she needs to yield her body to him.

  33. Ann1, You are way off base regarding Red Pill thought. I think Rollo and Dalrock even have a name for guys like you, “White Knight”. Have you actually read either Dalrock or Rollo? A serious sin if your wife just happens to not be in the mood on one given night!? Wow…. BTW: How long have you been married?

  34. Old Soul, I don’t think either Dalrock or Rollo are bitter. In fact they are quite wise, and I believe we should get wisdom whenever possible. I sense that you do to. I’m not here to promote either of those guys, i only meant to share what was helpful to me. Others can do as they please. If they prefer to go through life as plugged in Blue Pill guys, I have no problem with that. I prefer (as the analogy goes) to take the Red Pill and unplug from the Matrix and see life and women as they really are. But frankly, some guys just can’t handle it. They prefer the Disney fantasy, until they get served with divorce papers 20 years down the road, “and never saw it coming”.

  35. Old Soul, I am very happy for your marriage, and I wish you all the best. But I will caution you that many a man thought he found a unicorn, and that his wife was different from other women, at 10 years of marriage. Only to find out at 25 years that Unicorns don’t exist, and in fact, AWALT. Seen it multiple times at my very conservative church. And I’ve been married 34 years to the same woman and married her as a 22 year old virgin.

  36. Wow, this site’s inability to log me in and KEEP my comments angers me. I typed and posted a long, elaborate reply to Old Soul, and it’s MISSING.

  37. Abolt,
    I appreciate your thoughts – I do agree that seeking out wisdom from other experienced men is fruitful, especially in a nation that seems to be straying from proven economic and social principles. Prone to wander… we need men to counsel men on how to stay strong and stay Christian in modern America.

    Re: Dalrock and Rollo, I wasn’t saying any specific red pill guys leaders are bitter, just that some of the more visceral posts out there are coming from that place.

    As for unicorns, that was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, because of course no woman is perfect. But there are some pretty awesome babes out there, who are more than worthy of our effort and commitment. It’s that sense of optimism that I hoped to convey above, and also a sense of personal responsibility for our relationship outcomes that is, arguably, undermined by AWALT and such, at least to the extent that becomes a crutch to excuse our own relational shortcomings.

    I hope mine never loses her rainbow glitter and turns into a stubborn plough horse… but if that happens, I’m gonna be looking in the mirror wondering, how did I screw that one up?!

    Rick,
    Sorry you lost your thread, man! I’m sure it was great.

    – Old Soul

  38. Old Soul, I agree with you that optimism and personal effort in marriage are required! Very wise on your part. What I think Red Pill teaching does, among other things, is show men what kind of personal effort a man should be putting in his marriage. And it is very different and sometimes the exact opposite type of effort the church (but certainly not the Bible) teaches men they should be doing. And you’re correct Unicorns don’t exist, but sometimes a man can find a woman pretty darn close! Sounds like you did, and I did , and my son sure did!

  39. Abolt, I don’t know much about red pill stuff, the bible is the final authority on marriage to me. Perhaps I could learn some stuff from it. I thought I had answered your question. It wouldn’t be difficult for my wife to negotiate a mutually agreed delay – but I would consider it a serious sin if she flat out refused or told me no. Refusal is a whole different thing. Talk to the many guys here who face it and I’ll bet they would say it is a serious sin as well.

  40. Anm1, Again, are you married and if so, how long? I agree that the Bible is the final authority on marriage. But unless I misunderstand you, your assertion that your wife should just bend over on your command is not what the Bible is saying. “ negotiating a mutual delay” is ridiculous. Paul’s instruction is meant to be taken in the normal course of married life, as I explained before. To suggest that your wife should be at your beck and call for sex is like a Muslim, not a Christian. Everyone, including men, has there sex drive wax and wain. It’s normal. You don’t “negotiate “ sex with your wife unless you just want her to lay there while you get your rocks off. But that’s not how God intended sex to be. Just read Song of Solomon. My wife on occasion says she’s just not in the mood, in effect No. if that was a common occurrence then yes I would agree with you. Certainly I could force myself on her but that’s just selfish and I certainly don’t think that is what Paul had in mind. But to say such rare occurrences are sin I believe is a misrepresentation of the point he’s trying to make. Read some red pill stuff and you’ll know what I’m talking about.

  41. Well Old Soul, there were multiple parts I wanted to reply to, and since I am not in the same mood as I was when I wrote my initial response, I dunno if these will be close to the same words.

    First off, I do fear that your advice of “building your house first” is horribly outdated, mainly for the reason I earlier mentioned; that it would help hide the gold-diggers who are bound to come out of the woodwork looking for a house to steal.
    “If she didn’t want me while I was poor, why would I want her now that I’m rich?”

  42. Abolt – Paul’s instructions are crystal clear. It is when people muddy them that they turn them into everything that they are not. A wife can negotiate and try to sway her husband into agreeing with her to abstain, but if he disagrees then according to the bible, they should not abstain. It also says that a wife should submit to her husband as she does the Lord. There is no gray area here to argue about “normal course of married life” or you are like “this bad group”. There is what God says about the subject in His word. You can either accept it or go your own way. What Paul had exactly in mind is couple’s not defrauding each other because they “weren’t in the mood” and his clause for exception was extremely limited to specific conditions.

  43. Rick,
    I’m going to gently challenge your premise that a woman who seeks a ‘high-value’ man is a ‘gold-digger’. I would define a gold-digger as a woman seeking out exceptionally wealthy men so that she can indulge herself in a lazy and hedonistic lifestyle at his expense.

    Any self-respecting woman seeking a husband (and a future father of her babies) is naturally inclined toward men with adequate resources and status to ensure her family’s safety, security, and social status. That’s not only ok, it’s wise.

    You asked, “If she didn’t want me when I was poor, why would I want her now that I’m rich?” Well, I’d say that if she liked you alright, but was merely exercising good judgment at that time about who she hitched her wagon to, you WOULD still want her. Now, if you have reason to doubt her motives, that’s a different story.

    But expecting a woman to ‘just love me for who I am’ is a naive and dangerous expectation. She was, ultimately, created to raise and nurture a family. To that end, she will (and should) seek a provider for that family, first and foremost. Which brings me back to showing her either a) your potential, or b) your results. And the older you are, the more she rightfully expects to see more of b than a. This is why the jocks get the girls in 5th grade, when all they have to go on is who’s best at dodgeball. When you are 40, she cares more about your W-2 than your gun show.

    And let me ask you this, do YOU want to roll the dice on a girl who’s a ‘project’ and ‘just love her for who she is’? Or do you want a girl who is demonstrably responsible, respectful, fit, devout, thoughtful, hardworking, and has a track record of using her time wisely? Of course you want the second girl.

    The only difference, is that you can accurately gauge the desirable female qualities I mentioned above pretty early on by simply observing her behavior and interactions with her family. A girl who fits that bill at 16 probably will at 36, if she’s not poisoned by feminist theory in college. With guys, it’s harder to know what the finished product is going to look like.

    My own wife refused to accept a proposal from me until I was saved, had a solid job, had a green light from her parents, and owned a house. She would absolutely stay with me if I lost everything but my salvation, but she wasn’t so blinded by romanticism that she was going to jump into a half-built boat, make some babies, and start rowing.

    She knew she had choices, and that her youth, virginity, and commitment were valuable to me and would be to others. She damned sure was going to spend them wisely, because she also believed that divorce was not an option. She was all-in, and she wanted to go all in on pocket aces.

    I wanted a lifetime contract from her, that once signed obligated her to honor and obey me, till death do us part… unlimited sex, sandwiches, and kids, the whole deal. Well, I needed to show her some results first if she was gonna sign up for all that. So I jumped through every flaming hoop she could find.

    That’s not greed, it’s wisdom.

    The romantic part is that she would stand by me through any financial storm, because she chose to, and vowed to. Richer or poorer. I would stand by her, in sickness and in health. Even if we ultimately had no sex, no sandwiches, no job, no money, no house, and no kids… we are in it together.

  44. Old Soul, AMEN BROTHER!!! More wise counsel. And again mostly Red Pill. Also, known as Hypergamy, a universal female trait.

  45. Abolt,

    Regarding your comment:

    “Ann1, You are way off base regarding Red Pill thought. I think Rollo and Dalrock even have a name for guys like you, “White Knight”. Have you actually read either Dalrock or Rollo? A serious sin if your wife just happens to not be in the mood on one given night!? Wow…. BTW: How long have you been married?”

    I am not sure where I see any “white knighting” in Anm1’s comments. Here is the definition of a “White Knight” from the Rational Wiki:

    “A white knight is a male who defends a female in an argument.[4] Using this term likens any male defending a female to a knight rescuing a damsel in distress, which apparently always degrades the female as being unable to defend herself (never mind that women who can and do defend themselves get called other things). Furthermore, white knights apparently only defend females in the hope of getting sex from said females. White knights may also be accused of being blue pills, betas, manginas, etc. The term is always derogatory and is intended to end discussion through humiliation or embarrassment.”

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Manosphere_glossary

    Maybe you were referring to Anm1’s statement below:

    “It seems to me that the manosphere direction is to manipulate or trick a woman, because she is somehow incapable of having any responsibility or understanding or the ability to choose to do what is right.”

    I say AMEN and AMEN to Anm1’s statement above. This is one of the areas where I too disagree with Rollo and Red Pill ideology. Red Pill asserts that the ONLY way to get a woman to do what you want is use various means to manipulate her emotional responses to get the desired effect you want. But this is looking at the world from a purely naturalistic and humanistic mindset and also a modern mindset.

    Before the modern post-feminist era most of Red Pill methodology to manipulate a woman’s emotional responses or attract a woman would have been meaningless(except for men trying get women to commit fornication or adultery with them – then plenty of men used Red Pill).

    Because 95 percent of women did not get to choose their husbands. In order to get a woman before the post-feminist age you had to impress or attract the father of a woman, not the woman or herself. You had to show how your marrying his daughter would benefit him and his daughter. Even in marriage a man took that which was his – his wives body – whenever he wanted it.

    Now I realize someone reading this would say “well we are not living in the older world anymore and now we must deal directly with the women” and I agree with that. And that is why I think “some” and I mean “some” of Rollo’s concepts are helpful in understanding how to navigate a post-feminst world where relationships and other organizations are often dominated by women.

    But this still brings me back to a point that transcends societal changes. A woman now in 2019, just as a woman in 1519, can be influenced to be a good submissive wife and to freely and willingly give her body even when her desire is not there. And that influence comes not from emotional manipulation, but through faith and the power of the Holy Spirit. There are women that believe in a world larger than themselves. They believe in God and his Word and they try to conform their emotions to what he wants them to be. These women don’t ask the question “how would you feel” but rather in deference to God and the Bible they ask “How should I feel”.

    And with all due respect to Rollo and Red Pill, this is where Red Pill is sorely lacking.

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